Skip to comments.Philadelphia woman fatally mauled by pit bulls
Posted on 09/01/2011 5:54:33 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Authorities say a Philadelphia woman found dead in her home had been fatally mauled by her own dogs.
Autopsy results were released Thursday on 50-year-old Carmen Ramos.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
If she were still alive, she’d say: “They were such friendly dogs, they never ever killed me before.”
Dogs of Peace alert
...got a new neighbor across the way that has a PB.....the only thing that’s missing is that circle around his left eye...a perfect double for “Petey” from the our gang series
..IT’s a seven month old and still playful....petting him is like petting a concrete block
That could be Petey’s son Lamont.
What the main-stream media did not report, is that she was a proponent and member of a pitbull loving association, trying to dispel stories that the breed is dangerous. Tragic irony there.
What has four legs and one arm?
A happy pit bull.
Precisely . . . I have a young student with two children and two big pit bulls that are "such friendly dogs," that they wouldn't hurt a flea. I look at her and just shake my head.
It’s not the breed, it’s the humans who breed them.
If these dogs were not fixed, it would explain everything.
There is something in mature pit bulls that are not fixed, that is hormonal and triggers in the brain. With lower hormone levels it’s far, far, far less likely to happen, it’s just that a lot of people don’t fix their pets once they are adult size. They all ought to especially when a breed is noted for such behavior.
It's not the grizzly bear, it's the humans who hike near them.
No innocent bystanders or neighbors were hurt.
As for the owner, she reaped what she sowed.
I believe it turned out the first report was false. She fell off of a ladder and, I think, split her head open and lost a lot of blood. The husband found the dogs nudging their master, trying to wake her, and misunderstood what happened.
Sounds like a nice neighborhood.
I understand your response, Fly, but it is not a valid comparison.
Well bred pitbulls are one of the finest family dogs someone could own. They are protective of pets, children and the whole family if they are a properly bred and raised Pit.
Look at the Pit news articles. Are they in the urban areas or rural areas (where there are plenty of puts too).
The reason that pits get a bad rap is that they are tenatious and do not quit. That is not only in bad behavior but good (like playing with a ball or stick).
All dogs are are a potential threat if they are bred poorly, raised poorly, trained poorly and treated as if they are another family member (they are not, they are a dog, an animal, and must understand submission to the owner).
Belive what you want, but in all my years of dog training in behavior modification and attack work, it is a small percentage of the dogs that are the real problem.
Maybe I’ll buy my ex a couple of pit pups as a gift.
What sort of idiots would return dogs to the same situation from which they previously attacked people?
There is something in mature pit bulls that are not fixed
Bingo. It usually hits at about 1.5 to 2 years and the dog is out of control. Add a 20 something male owner and you have a very bad situation. I just had a confrontation with a kid in my dog park who wanted to lecture me about the breed because he was offended that I was removing my dogs from the threat that his presented. In his mind I was obligated to keep my dogs there to "play" with his intact pit, otherwise I was "racist".
One could use these circumstances to argue that the owner drives the behaviour of the dog. But there have been many quite decent folks who have lost control of pits as well as idiots like the one I encountered. When I meet a well mannered pit neutered or not who is 6 to 8 years with a verifiable record of good behavior, I am pretty comfortable with them. If they are younger than that, I do not trust them one little bit.
It isn’t the breed. It’s the owners, other animals and small children who tempt them to be so violent!
You also say that in all your years of dog training, you've only seen a "small percentage" that are the real problem.
My point is that with the breed of pit bull, that "small percentage" increases exponentially. When you choose a dog to keep as a pet that has been historically bred to fight tenaciously, you can't sweep the risk of attack under the rug.
As for me, I would never allow a pit bull anywhere near me or my family. The risk may actually quite miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but it's a risk I CAN CONTROL AND REFUSE TO MAKE.
SIDENOTE: I'm not for banning the breed, however. There are too many loyal and loveable pit bulls that never harm anyone. But it's a Buyer's Beware market. I won't own one, and I'll never knowingly go on a hike in Grizzly bear country without a gun. :^)
All the best to you too!
A dog park allows an intact male? Huh?
Yep I know is sounds odd. But it is an unattended park that the police dept hates. We are so on our own there. Rules are posted but neutering is not one of them. So we have to roll with what we have.
People regularly drop dogs off that are no longer wanted via drive by and we find homes for most of them. Nothing is by the book and most is seat of the pants. We just do what needs doing.
I love pit bulls,they make great moving targets.
Oh, that’s awful.
I don’t go to the one here b/c it’s way across town and I live right by a PetSmart with playday, but I think they make you get a key fob for entrance after you apply to the park service with documentation of shots and fixin’.
... and thank you for an level headed response. It’s getting rarer these days in both dog breed discusion and politics. lol
Anyway, the size of the dog is only partially relavant to the potential damage it can do to a human. A small breed that is in a highly agressive state can easily rip apart a child, and sometimes is more of a threat because people think, “It’s just a little dog.” A crazed Chiuhuahua could easily be as much of a threat to a fmily as a 200# English Mastiff (which would probably be very little threat).
If you’ve ever whatched the Dog Whisperer, he is right on the money in almost 100% of the cases we see on the show. It’s almost always the way the dog is raised and handled by the owners.
Picking a (precieved) loving breed (like a Golden Retriever) is no protection against dog aggression if the dog is left to its own devies. It will assume the alpha role (becuase no one else does) even if it is not a particularly dominant dog. That is just the way dogs are.
El Premio de los Darwin.
It’s not the dog, it’s the owner.
Aim for the owner.
That sounds like one of my co-workers!What is your area?
Thanks for your balanced commentary. As has been said ANY breed can be vicious; the only two dogs that ever attacked me were a chiuaha & a 5 lb teacup poodle. If they’d had their way I’d be in pieces.
On behalf of the breed, which I like very much, may I say that I wish it had been Michael Vick on the floor
That fairy tale still being circulated by the pit bull propagandists?
You need to find a more gullible audience.
I’ve always thought dog parks were a bad idea. There is nothing to stop an agressive dog from attacking another dog or a person at these places. Dogs are not children. They sometimes like to play with other dogs, but most prefer to be with people. Often dogs are bullied or intimidated by other dogs and don’t enjoy being in groups of other dogs at all.
With the recent increase in the times that large numbers of dogs are together in doggie day care, dog parks, and boarding facilities, there may also be an increase in the number of communicable diseases in dogs. Something to think about.
“Well bred pitbulls...”
What qualifies as “well bred?” Most of the pitbulls I’ve seen were ill-bred, as inner-city, watch/fight/protection dogs...and often very mistreated, for generations.
I’m sure you’re correct, some carefully bred pits are fine....however speaking of “well bred” pits is a bit like talking about “moderate Islam”... more or less a contradiction of terms.
Did they rip 1/2 your face off and chew up your arms and legs or did the nip you and leave 2 drops of blood...
I’m convinced that the intention of each of the dogs (chihuahua & teacup poodle) was indeed to maul me, if they had been big enough to achieve their aim. These dogs are in separate houses and each lunged at me, leaping off chairs, snarling, with teeth bared. They each did it on more than one occasion. Each time their owners laughed it off because of the size of the dogs; the owners thought the dogs were “cute”. No, they were displaying vicious behavior and their actions would have been dangerous if the dogs were bigger or if I had been a small child.
That was the point of my comment, BTW, that it’s temperament and owner leadership which is imperative. ANY DOG, regardless of size or breed, can be dangerous if the owners don’t take responsibility.
Keep in mind this study comes from Spain, where there are no large pockets of inner city youths who prize dogs not as pets, but as 4-legged weapons. This study leans toward the fact that the attitude of the owner is key to whether the individual dog is aggressive, in many cases.
Banned breeds are no more aggressive than others, new study finds
One of many new reports that can be found on the National Canine Research Council website.
Banned breeds are no more aggressive than others, new study finds
Posted on July 26, 2011
Every study completed to date has found breed specific legislation to be completely ineffective in reducing the incidence of dog bites. Now a study of pet dogs in Spain published in The Journal of Veterinary Behavior, offers new insight into why. The study found that the so called dangerous breeds simply behave no differently from dogs in general when it comes to behaviors likely to lead to biting.
The authors looked for risk factors for various behavior problems as reported by dog owners. They found that dogs identified as belonging to breeds designated as dangerous according to Spanish law were no more likely to behave aggressively toward people or toward other dogs than were dogs of the random group of breeds in the sample.
What the study did find was that the larger the dog (dividing the 232 dogs studied into 3 size categories), the less likely it was to exhibit aggressive behaviors toward people such as barking, growling, snarling lunging, snapping or biting. Large dogs were also less likely to behave fearfully. This is particularly striking with regard to the breeds identified as dangerous according to Spanish law, since most fall into the large dog category and the rest into the medium. Thus they are disproportionately represented within the least aggressive groups the study identified. Another notable aspect of this finding is that it is consistent with a larger study conducted in Canada a decade earlier, (Guy, 2001) suggesting that this inverse relationship between aggression and size may carry over across continents and long periods of time.
In looking at aggression toward their fellow dogs, the study found that gender and age played a role. Males were more likely to show aggression toward other dogs, as were to a small degree, the older dogs in the sample, but dangerous breed identification made no difference.
The researchers conclude simply, that “dogs classified as dangerous do not seem to be more aggressive than the rest.”
Martinez,A.G., Pernas, G.S., Casalta,J.D., Rey,M.L.S., Palomino, L.F,dlC., Risk factors associated with behavioral problems in dogs. Journal of Veterinary Veterinary Behavior (2011) 6, 225-231.
Down, Fido. I'm not a “pit bull propagandist”. I hate the little buggers.
I read about this tragedy when it first came out and filed it under just another “pitbull eats owner to death” story. A couple of days later, I read somewhere that the facts may be in question.
I'm not sure where I ran across it, but this is the story I heard...
From the article...
According to residents of the Napora neighborhood, the dog did not maul Darla Napora, just found out that the woman fell off a ladder and hit her head...husband came home found the dog standing over her...he put the dog out side....it got loose and cops shot the dog...thinking that it had mauled the lady. The dog had blood on it's body because he was trying to nudge her to make her move....
Darlas father, Doug Robinson was quoted as saying, Lets wait for the autopsy I talked to the police and will wait for the professionals to make a decision I have been a police officer and a detective for several years. This is my daughter and I will wait for the evidence.
Now clearly, this turned out to be a false report from a bad source. Darla was in fact, mauled to death by her own "beloved" pitbull. I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong. However, I'm not keen on being accused of something I'm not.
It really is the owner and not the breed.
So now I’m confused - did her pet eat her or did she fall off the ladder?
You can almost make it a mathematical equation:
North Philly + 5 pit bulls + one house =
Oh got it thanks. You are good at math!