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Philadelphia woman fatally mauled by pit bulls
Associated Press ^ | Sept. 1, 2011

Posted on 09/01/2011 5:54:33 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Authorities say a Philadelphia woman found dead in her home had been fatally mauled by her own dogs.

Autopsy results were released Thursday on 50-year-old Carmen Ramos.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: chet99; dangerousbreed; doggieping; evilbreed; freechet99; gangstadogs; pitbulls; suburbanlivestock; targets
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1 posted on 09/01/2011 5:54:35 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY

If she were still alive, she’d say: “They were such friendly dogs, they never ever killed me before.”


2 posted on 09/01/2011 5:56:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Ruh-Roh.


3 posted on 09/01/2011 5:56:14 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Dogs of Peace alert


4 posted on 09/01/2011 5:58:05 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

...got a new neighbor across the way that has a PB.....the only thing that’s missing is that circle around his left eye...a perfect double for “Petey” from the our gang series


5 posted on 09/01/2011 5:58:27 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Doogle

..IT’s a seven month old and still playful....petting him is like petting a concrete block


6 posted on 09/01/2011 6:00:07 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Doogle

That could be Petey’s son Lamont.


7 posted on 09/01/2011 6:01:09 PM PDT by Krankor
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To: Secret Agent Man
A pregnant woman got killed by her pitbull in Pacifica last month, a few miles from where I live in So. San Francisco. Her husband came home and found her bloody body and the pitbull standing over her.

What the main-stream media did not report, is that she was a proponent and member of a pitbull loving association, trying to dispel stories that the breed is dangerous. Tragic irony there.

8 posted on 09/01/2011 6:01:54 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: Free ThinkerNY

RIP.


9 posted on 09/01/2011 6:02:48 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

What has four legs and one arm?

A happy pit bull.


10 posted on 09/01/2011 6:04:07 PM PDT by Crawdad
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To: Secret Agent Man
If she were still alive, she’d say: “They were such friendly dogs, they never ever killed me before.”

Precisely . . . I have a young student with two children and two big pit bulls that are "such friendly dogs," that they wouldn't hurt a flea. I look at her and just shake my head.

11 posted on 09/01/2011 6:04:26 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: OrangeHoof

It’s not the breed, it’s the humans who breed them.


12 posted on 09/01/2011 6:05:26 PM PDT by Nonsense Unlimited
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To: roadcat

If these dogs were not fixed, it would explain everything.

There is something in mature pit bulls that are not fixed, that is hormonal and triggers in the brain. With lower hormone levels it’s far, far, far less likely to happen, it’s just that a lot of people don’t fix their pets once they are adult size. They all ought to especially when a breed is noted for such behavior.


13 posted on 09/01/2011 6:07:06 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Nonsense Unlimited
It’s not the breed, it’s the humans who breed them.

It's not the grizzly bear, it's the humans who hike near them.

14 posted on 09/01/2011 6:09:48 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Upside:

No innocent bystanders or neighbors were hurt.

As for the owner, she reaped what she sowed.

15 posted on 09/01/2011 6:13:22 PM PDT by Realman30 ("I've already made a donation to Haiti. It's called taxes". . . . El Rushbo.)
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To: roadcat

I believe it turned out the first report was false. She fell off of a ladder and, I think, split her head open and lost a lot of blood. The husband found the dogs nudging their master, trying to wake her, and misunderstood what happened.


16 posted on 09/01/2011 6:16:41 PM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: Doogle

Sounds like a nice neighborhood.


17 posted on 09/01/2011 6:17:05 PM PDT by fire4effect
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I love German Shepherds, hounds of all breeds, Boxers, Labs, Golden Retrievers, happy mutts, funny Pugs, terriers and actually about any dog. I do think some dogs are too dangerous to be owned by most people. A strong aggressive dog requires stronger handling then most people can give them. A person has to know their limitations.
18 posted on 09/01/2011 6:18:34 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: fire4effect

not bad


19 posted on 09/01/2011 6:20:04 PM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Flycatcher

I understand your response, Fly, but it is not a valid comparison.

Well bred pitbulls are one of the finest family dogs someone could own. They are protective of pets, children and the whole family if they are a properly bred and raised Pit.

Look at the Pit news articles. Are they in the urban areas or rural areas (where there are plenty of puts too).

The reason that pits get a bad rap is that they are tenatious and do not quit. That is not only in bad behavior but good (like playing with a ball or stick).

All dogs are are a potential threat if they are bred poorly, raised poorly, trained poorly and treated as if they are another family member (they are not, they are a dog, an animal, and must understand submission to the owner).

Belive what you want, but in all my years of dog training in behavior modification and attack work, it is a small percentage of the dogs that are the real problem.

God bless


20 posted on 09/01/2011 6:21:51 PM PDT by Nonsense Unlimited
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Maybe I’ll buy my ex a couple of pit pups as a gift.


21 posted on 09/01/2011 6:27:56 PM PDT by umgud
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To: Secret Agent Man
Neighbors say the dogs were recently removed by animal welfare officers after they escaped and attacked two residents. But they say the dogs were later returned.

What sort of idiots would return dogs to the same situation from which they previously attacked people?

There is something in mature pit bulls that are not fixed

Bingo. It usually hits at about 1.5 to 2 years and the dog is out of control. Add a 20 something male owner and you have a very bad situation. I just had a confrontation with a kid in my dog park who wanted to lecture me about the breed because he was offended that I was removing my dogs from the threat that his presented. In his mind I was obligated to keep my dogs there to "play" with his intact pit, otherwise I was "racist".

One could use these circumstances to argue that the owner drives the behaviour of the dog. But there have been many quite decent folks who have lost control of pits as well as idiots like the one I encountered. When I meet a well mannered pit neutered or not who is 6 to 8 years with a verifiable record of good behavior, I am pretty comfortable with them. If they are younger than that, I do not trust them one little bit.

22 posted on 09/01/2011 6:28:51 PM PDT by lovesdogs
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To: Free ThinkerNY

It isn’t the breed. It’s the owners, other animals and small children who tempt them to be so violent!


23 posted on 09/01/2011 6:41:52 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: Nonsense Unlimited
Thanks for your polite and gracious response. You make good points: all large dogs can be dangerous; all are "potentially dangerous" if they were raised and trained poorly.

You also say that in all your years of dog training, you've only seen a "small percentage" that are the real problem.

My point is that with the breed of pit bull, that "small percentage" increases exponentially. When you choose a dog to keep as a pet that has been historically bred to fight tenaciously, you can't sweep the risk of attack under the rug.

As for me, I would never allow a pit bull anywhere near me or my family. The risk may actually quite miniscule in the grand scheme of things, but it's a risk I CAN CONTROL AND REFUSE TO MAKE.

SIDENOTE: I'm not for banning the breed, however. There are too many loyal and loveable pit bulls that never harm anyone. But it's a Buyer's Beware market. I won't own one, and I'll never knowingly go on a hike in Grizzly bear country without a gun. :^)

All the best to you too!

24 posted on 09/01/2011 6:42:58 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: lovesdogs

A dog park allows an intact male? Huh?


25 posted on 09/01/2011 6:43:25 PM PDT by GnuHere
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To: GnuHere

Yep I know is sounds odd. But it is an unattended park that the police dept hates. We are so on our own there. Rules are posted but neutering is not one of them. So we have to roll with what we have.

People regularly drop dogs off that are no longer wanted via drive by and we find homes for most of them. Nothing is by the book and most is seat of the pants. We just do what needs doing.


26 posted on 09/01/2011 7:06:42 PM PDT by lovesdogs
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I love pit bulls,they make great moving targets.


27 posted on 09/01/2011 7:12:28 PM PDT by WePledge (Ich werde fur immer ein Hollenhund werden. Semper Fidelis)
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To: lovesdogs

Oh, that’s awful.
I don’t go to the one here b/c it’s way across town and I live right by a PetSmart with playday, but I think they make you get a key fob for entrance after you apply to the park service with documentation of shots and fixin’.


28 posted on 09/01/2011 7:19:27 PM PDT by GnuHere
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To: Flycatcher

... and thank you for an level headed response. It’s getting rarer these days in both dog breed discusion and politics. lol

Anyway, the size of the dog is only partially relavant to the potential damage it can do to a human. A small breed that is in a highly agressive state can easily rip apart a child, and sometimes is more of a threat because people think, “It’s just a little dog.” A crazed Chiuhuahua could easily be as much of a threat to a fmily as a 200# English Mastiff (which would probably be very little threat).

If you’ve ever whatched the Dog Whisperer, he is right on the money in almost 100% of the cases we see on the show. It’s almost always the way the dog is raised and handled by the owners.

Picking a (precieved) loving breed (like a Golden Retriever) is no protection against dog aggression if the dog is left to its own devies. It will assume the alpha role (becuase no one else does) even if it is not a particularly dominant dog. That is just the way dogs are.


29 posted on 09/01/2011 7:19:57 PM PDT by Nonsense Unlimited
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To: Free ThinkerNY

El Premio de los Darwin.


30 posted on 09/01/2011 7:21:47 PM PDT by denydenydeny (The moment you step into a world of facts, you step into a world of limits. --Chesterton)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Poor doggy!

It’s not the dog, it’s the owner.

Aim for the owner.


31 posted on 09/01/2011 7:23:30 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Obama is bad luck for the US.)
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To: lovesdogs

That sounds like one of my co-workers!What is your area?


32 posted on 09/01/2011 7:41:42 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: Nonsense Unlimited

Thanks for your balanced commentary. As has been said ANY breed can be vicious; the only two dogs that ever attacked me were a chiuaha & a 5 lb teacup poodle. If they’d had their way I’d be in pieces.


33 posted on 09/01/2011 7:56:37 PM PDT by JoyjoyfromNJ (everything written by me on FR is my personal opinion & does not represent my employer)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

On behalf of the breed, which I like very much, may I say that I wish it had been Michael Vick on the floor


34 posted on 09/01/2011 8:03:58 PM PDT by JoyjoyfromNJ (everything written by me on FR is my personal opinion & does not represent my employer)
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To: Nonsense Unlimited
You are right all dogs can be dangerous. My two mixed breed mutts adore me and I don't put up with much nonsense from them, but they walk all over my gentle wife. Despite the fact that I do really well with my little mutt ladies I know I could never handle a real strong aggressive dog like a Pit Bull.
35 posted on 09/01/2011 8:12:36 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: Tex-Con-Man
I believe it turned out the first report was false. She fell off of a ladder and, I think, split her head open and lost a lot of blood. The husband found the dogs nudging their master, trying to wake her, and misunderstood what happened.

That fairy tale still being circulated by the pit bull propagandists?

You need to find a more gullible audience.

36 posted on 09/01/2011 8:21:19 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Free ThinkerNY
The Medical Examiner's Office has ruled that a North Philadelphia woman found dead with her five pit bulls was killed by one or more of the dogs, police said.
37 posted on 09/01/2011 8:29:53 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: GnuHere

I’ve always thought dog parks were a bad idea. There is nothing to stop an agressive dog from attacking another dog or a person at these places. Dogs are not children. They sometimes like to play with other dogs, but most prefer to be with people. Often dogs are bullied or intimidated by other dogs and don’t enjoy being in groups of other dogs at all.

With the recent increase in the times that large numbers of dogs are together in doggie day care, dog parks, and boarding facilities, there may also be an increase in the number of communicable diseases in dogs. Something to think about.


38 posted on 09/01/2011 8:44:50 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Nonsense Unlimited

“Well bred pitbulls...”

What qualifies as “well bred?” Most of the pitbulls I’ve seen were ill-bred, as inner-city, watch/fight/protection dogs...and often very mistreated, for generations.

I’m sure you’re correct, some carefully bred pits are fine....however speaking of “well bred” pits is a bit like talking about “moderate Islam”... more or less a contradiction of terms.


39 posted on 09/01/2011 8:58:33 PM PDT by AnalogReigns ((since reality is never digital...))
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To: Flycatcher

LOL


40 posted on 09/01/2011 10:01:05 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: JoyjoyfromNJ

Did they rip 1/2 your face off and chew up your arms and legs or did the nip you and leave 2 drops of blood...


41 posted on 09/01/2011 10:06:06 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Free ThinkerNY; Tribune7; Kid Shelleen; All
More info here:

Philly ping.

42 posted on 09/01/2011 10:12:40 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: goat granny

I’m convinced that the intention of each of the dogs (chihuahua & teacup poodle) was indeed to maul me, if they had been big enough to achieve their aim. These dogs are in separate houses and each lunged at me, leaping off chairs, snarling, with teeth bared. They each did it on more than one occasion. Each time their owners laughed it off because of the size of the dogs; the owners thought the dogs were “cute”. No, they were displaying vicious behavior and their actions would have been dangerous if the dogs were bigger or if I had been a small child.

That was the point of my comment, BTW, that it’s temperament and owner leadership which is imperative. ANY DOG, regardless of size or breed, can be dangerous if the owners don’t take responsibility.


43 posted on 09/02/2011 5:57:22 AM PDT by JoyjoyfromNJ (everything written by me on FR is my personal opinion & does not represent my employer)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Keep in mind this study comes from Spain, where there are no large pockets of inner city youths who prize dogs not as pets, but as 4-legged weapons. This study leans toward the fact that the attitude of the owner is key to whether the individual dog is aggressive, in many cases.

Banned breeds are no more aggressive than others, new study finds

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/blog/new-study-finds-banned-breeds-no-more-aggressive-than-any-others/

One of many new reports that can be found on the National Canine Research Council website.

Banned breeds are no more aggressive than others, new study finds

Posted on July 26, 2011

Every study completed to date has found breed specific legislation to be completely ineffective in reducing the incidence of dog bites. Now a study of pet dogs in Spain published in The Journal of Veterinary Behavior, offers new insight into why. The study found that the so called dangerous breeds simply behave no differently from dogs in general when it comes to behaviors likely to lead to biting.

The authors looked for risk factors for various behavior problems as reported by dog owners. They found that dogs identified as belonging to breeds designated as dangerous according to Spanish law were no more likely to behave aggressively toward people or toward other dogs than were dogs of the random group of breeds in the sample.

What the study did find was that the larger the dog (dividing the 232 dogs studied into 3 size categories), the less likely it was to exhibit aggressive behaviors toward people such as barking, growling, snarling lunging, snapping or biting. Large dogs were also less likely to behave fearfully. This is particularly striking with regard to the breeds identified as dangerous according to Spanish law, since most fall into the large dog category and the rest into the medium. Thus they are disproportionately represented within the least aggressive groups the study identified. Another notable aspect of this finding is that it is consistent with a larger study conducted in Canada a decade earlier, (Guy, 2001) suggesting that this inverse relationship between aggression and size may carry over across continents and long periods of time.

In looking at aggression toward their fellow dogs, the study found that gender and age played a role. Males were more likely to show aggression toward other dogs, as were to a small degree, the older dogs in the sample, but dangerous breed identification made no difference.
The researchers conclude simply, that “dogs classified as dangerous do not seem to be more aggressive than the rest.”

Martinez,A.G., Pernas, G.S., Casalta,J.D., Rey,M.L.S., Palomino, L.F,dlC., Risk factors associated with behavioral problems in dogs. Journal of Veterinary Veterinary Behavior (2011) 6, 225-231.



44 posted on 09/02/2011 6:26:04 AM PDT by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: PAR35; roadcat
That fairy tale still being circulated by the pit bull propagandists?
You need to find a more gullible audience.

Down, Fido. I'm not a “pit bull propagandist”. I hate the little buggers.

I read about this tragedy when it first came out and filed it under just another “pitbull eats owner to death” story. A couple of days later, I read somewhere that the facts may be in question.

I'm not sure where I ran across it, but this is the story I heard...

Pacifica dog mauling…what really happened?

From the article...

According to residents of the Napora neighborhood, the dog did not maul Darla Napora, “just found out that the woman fell off a ladder and hit her head...husband came home found the dog standing over her...he put the dog out side....it got loose and cops shot the dog...thinking that it had mauled the lady. The dog had blood on it's body because he was trying to nudge her to make her move....”

Darla’s father, Doug Robinson was quoted as saying, “Lets wait for the autopsy I talked to the police and will wait for the professionals to make a decision I have been a police officer and a detective for several years. This is my daughter and I will wait for the evidence.”

Now clearly, this turned out to be a false report from a bad source. Darla was in fact, mauled to death by her own "beloved" pitbull. I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong. However, I'm not keen on being accused of something I'm not.

45 posted on 09/02/2011 7:32:48 AM PDT by Tex-Con-Man
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To: Owl_Eagle; brityank; Physicist; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; GOPJ; abner; baseballmom; Mo1; Ciexyz; ...

ping


46 posted on 09/02/2011 7:45:59 AM PDT by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I'd be willing to bet that that pack of pit bulls the family was keeping included ones that were unfixed and male.

It really is the owner and not the breed.

47 posted on 09/02/2011 7:50:29 AM PDT by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7

So now I’m confused - did her pet eat her or did she fall off the ladder?


48 posted on 09/02/2011 7:51:32 AM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA (Maxine Waters tells Tea Party to "go to hell" - no thanks, I have no desire to move to your district)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
I think two different cases are being discussed. In the North Philly one, the dogs killed the owner.

You can almost make it a mathematical equation:

North Philly + 5 pit bulls + one house =

49 posted on 09/02/2011 7:58:38 AM PDT by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Tribune7

Oh got it thanks. You are good at math!


50 posted on 09/02/2011 8:00:42 AM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA (Maxine Waters tells Tea Party to "go to hell" - no thanks, I have no desire to move to your district)
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