Posted on 07/23/2011 6:50:38 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
BTW, the MSM have been describing this murderer as “RIGHT WING”, Can anybody explain to me what exactly they have in their mind when they use this term?
They also regularly refer to Nazis as “right wing”. But I cannot for the hell of it understand how the term “right” applies to Hitler...
Beyond the apparently bogus Facebook page, all I have is my gut telling me there is WAY more to this story than we know right now. Way more and not cut and dried like the Left is trying to project it so as to make their political hay against right-wingers.
I do not ever remember any piece of history about an actual Christian murdering children in great numbers. It may have happened in the Dark Ages. If anyone remembers such an event, please let me know.
I posted this on another thread:
I have been talking with a couple of people, trying to figure out how 80 kids could have been killed in 1/2 hour.
For one person, this averages 1 per 20 secs. If 20-25 were shot at a central location right up front, this still leaves 1 every 30 seconds.
This does not include the kids running and scattering, while the shooter walks/aims, reloads, aims and shoots. (This does not assume a person uses a sight, which would take longer.) On open territory that, presumably, he had not scouted out previously and extensively.
OTH, if 1 man was pushing the kids into a X-man team, THEY would have an ambush lying in wait. Kids would not have run into water unless they had been driven into a corner.
10%+ were killed. We do not know the number of injured.
Where did 1 man train to have such accuracy? What were the practice ranges?
In short, we do not know the actual story, and what we are being told is not what happened.
For the bomb itself, we are told he ordered 4 tons of fertilizer. This is 8,000 lbs. Let’s say he used 3 tons. How is it that 1) the car was permitted to sit in a no parking zone. 2) that much stuff was loaded and prepped into a small CAR. 3) the blast radius did not physically knock out more of the walls and supports if the bomb was that big. 4) no one in law enforcement monitored the sale and use of such an amount of fertilizer. 5) the manufacturer did not flag the delivery of the amount. 6) a ‘geofarmer’ was using that much fertilizer in mid-July?
What amount of acreage did he farm? Did he have employees? What were his processes? Where would this have been stored? How would it have been inventoried? What safeguards would be in place to store it? What was the history/pattern of usage of fertilizer in this business of his geofarm enterprise?
And we are told the man is a Christian. When was the last time a Christian did such a thing?
U of M was home to the (SDS) Students for a Democratic Society and the Weather Underground in the ‘60’s. Nothing much has changed. Bill Ayres was there.
The man is not a christian, not in any sense of the word. A true Christian would not do the things he’s done. I smell a set up................
Obviously a CINO
Let me understand this. A Christian conservative kills 80 people to prove cChristian conservative values are the right coarse for people??!
I don’t think so.
So, if Christian conservatives are not going to benefit any by this scheme, who will?...... Hmmm??
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/
GOV is right, smells like OKC. No way one Christian right individual (who’s ‘website was set up days ago), car bombs then slaughters Labour youth kids in that fashion.
Also, all the condolences from certain factions are suspicious (while protesters and citizens are slaughted in the ME).
This is a set-up.
Now AQ has withdrawn responsibility; When was the last time you saw that.
There's a POWERFULEST suggestion that it was FAKE.
It has been "taken down" according to those who've gone looking for it.
Do you have any other sources where HE SAYS that he's a Christian and a Conservative?
BTW, it's pretty bizarre for a Scandinavian of any kind to say he's a "conservative" anyway. Those people have a multiplicity of political parties and most everybody is part of something other than something with "conservative" in the title.
He could be a royalist! Hey, he could be a Anarcho Syndacalist ~ they hate the regular Commies like nobody's business ~ and they hate royalty ~ and there's a current report that the cops have found something they believe is ANOTHER BOMB right near the "royal palace".
Dum dum dum dum dumdumdum (tympanic drums beating in unison).
We shall see ~ and hey, Eurotwit, tell us, how do Scandinavian languages treat with the expression "fundamentalist Christian" ~ do they even have that ideomatic expression? I know English is in widespread use, but ideomatic expressions always lag behind ~ they provide all the fun in those Google.com translations!
Massacres at London and York (1189–1190)
Richard I had taken the cross before his coronation (3 September 1189). A number of the principal Jews of England presented themselves to do homage at Westminster; but there appears to have been a superstition against Jews being admitted to such a holy ceremony, and they were repulsed during the banquet which followed the coronation. The rumour spread from Westminster to the City of London that the king had ordered a massacre of the Jews; and a mob in Old Jewry, after vainly attacking throughout the day the strong stone houses of the Jews, set them on fire at night, killing those within who attempted to escape. The king was enraged at this insult to his royal dignity, but took few steps to punish the offenders, owing to their large numbers. After his departure on the crusade, riots with loss of life occurred at Lynn, where the Jews attempted to attack a baptised coreligionist who had taken refuge in a church. The seafaring population rose against them, fired their houses, and put them to the sword. So, too, at Stamford Fair, on 7 March 1190, many were slain, and on 18 March, 57 were slaughtered at Bury St Edmunds. The Jews of Lincoln saved themselves only by taking refuge in the castle.
Clifford's Tower, where the Jews of York were killed in 1190.Isolated attacks on Jews also occurred at Colchester, Thetford, and Ospringe, but the most striking incident occurred at York on the night of March 16 (the day of the Jewish feast of Shabbat ha-Gadol, the shabbat before Passover) and 17 March 1190. The Jews of York were alarmed by the preceding massacres and by the setting on fire of several of their houses by the anti-Jewish rioting in the wake of religious fervour during crusaders' preparations for the Third Crusade against the Saracens, led by Richard. Their leader Josce asked the warden of York Castle to receive them with their wives and children, and they were accepted into Clifford's Tower. However, the tower was besieged by the mob of crusaders, demanding that the Jews convert to Christianity and be baptized. Trapped in the castle, the Jews were advised by their religious leader, Rabbi Yomtov of Joigney, to kill themselves rather than convert; Josce began by slaying his wife Anna and his two children, and then was killed by Yomtov. The father of each family killed his wife and children, and then Yomtov stabbed the men before killing himself. The handful of Jews who did not kill themselves surrendered to the crusaders at daybreak on 17 March, leaving the castle on a promise that they would not be harmed; they were also killed. In the aftermath the wooden tower was burnt down.
Jewish skeletons have recently been discovered in an ancient well in the town of Norwich in England. The skeletons date back to the 12th or 13th centuries.
From the BBC:
The remains of 17 bodies found at the bottom of a medieval well in England could have been victims of persecution, new evidence has suggested.
The most likely explanation is that those down the well were Jewish and were probably murdered or forced to commit suicide, according to scientists who used a combination of DNA analysis, carbon dating and bone chemical studies in their investigation.
The skeletons date back to the 12th or 13th Centuries at a time when Jewish people were facing persecution throughout Europe.
They were discovered in 2004 during an excavation of a site in the centre of Norwich, ahead of construction of the Chapelfield Shopping Centre. The remains were put into storage and have only recently been the subject of investigation.
Seven skeletons were successfully tested and five of them had a DNA sequence suggesting they were likely to be members of a single Jewish family.
DNA expert Dr Ian Barnes, who carried out the tests, said: "This is a really unusual situation for us. This is a unique set of data that we have been able to get for these individuals.
"I am not aware that this has been done before - that we have been able to pin them down to this level of specificity of the ethnic group that they seem to come from."
'Ethnic cleansing' The team has been led by forensic anthropologist Professor Sue Black, of the University of Dundee's Centre for Anthropology and Human Identification.
History Cold Case: The Bodies in the Well will be on BBC Two at 2100 BST on Thursday 23 June 2011 Professor Sue Black, Dr Xanthe Mallett and Professor Caroline Wilkinson will delve deeper into the mystery and attempt to recreate the faces of those found in the well
Professor Black, who went to the Balkans following the Kosovo war - where her job was to piece together the bodies of massacred Kosovan Albanians - said this discovery had changed the direction of the whole investigation.
Regarding the nature of the discovery, Professor Black said: "We are possibly talking about persecution. We are possibly talking about ethnic cleansing and this all brings to mind the scenario that we dealt with during the Balkan War crimes."
Eleven of the 17 skeletons were those of children aged between two and 15. The remaining six were adult men and women.
"In terms of the brutality of the ethnic cleansing, it was thought women and children quite frankly weren't worth wasting the bullets on," added Professor Black.
"Pregnant women were bayoneted because that way you got rid of a woman because that wasn't important and you got rid of the next generation because you didn't want them to survive. So I know what sort of pattern I am looking for."
Cushioned fall Pictures taken at the time of excavation suggested the bodies were thrown down the well together, head first.
A close examination of the adult bones showed fractures caused by the impact of hitting the bottom of the well. But the same damage was not seen on the children's bones, suggesting they were thrown in after the adults who cushioned the fall of their bodies.
The team had earlier considered the possibility of death by disease but the bone examination also showed no evidence of diseases such as leprosy or tuberculosis.
Giles Emery, the archaeologist who led the original excavation, said at first he thought it might have been a plague burial, but carbon dating had shown that to be impossible as the plague came much later.
And historians pointed out that even during times of plague when mass graves were used, bodies were buried in an ordered way with respect and religious rites.
Norwich had been home to a thriving Jewish community since 1135 and many lived near the well site. But there are records of persecution of Jews in medieval England including in Norwich (see fact box).
Sophie Cabot, an archaeologist and expert on Norwich's Jewish history, said the Jewish people had been invited to England by the King to lend money because at the time, the Christian interpretation of the bible did not allow Christians to lend money and charge interest. It was regarded as a sin.
So cash finance for big projects came from the Jewish community and some became very wealthy - which in turn, caused friction.
"There is a resentment of the fact that Jews are making money... and they are doing it in a way that doesn't involve physical labour, things that are necessarily recognised as work... like people feel about bankers now," said Ms Cabot.
The findings of the investigation represented a sad day for Norwich.
Ms Cabot added: "It changes the story of what we know about the community. We don't know everything about the community but what we do know is changed by this." I am not sure what this tells us, other than that there was plenty of anti-semitism back then. Considering that Norwich was the location of the first known blood libel against the Jews, somewhere around the same time period from which these bones are dated (perhaps the bones are slightly older, perhaps they are slightly newer), this does not seem to be much of a revelation.
History is, frankly, ugly.
Exactly.
Before WWII they all had a rather aggressive tradition of beating each other up and looking down there noses at "the other".
As long as we continue to have a large fleet in the Mediterranean and the North Atlantic American policy will prevail. If, as Obama hopes, we pull back from our involvement in the Old World, the former policy will come to the fore and these people will return to murdering each other in large numbers.
Not that I'm looking down my nose at Europeans but I am. Just can't help it. We've already been through all of this and pretty well worked out the problem of centripetal power diffusion ~ which Europeans probably never will.
Christ told us that we would be reviled and attacked for our beliefs, so how is this a surprise?
I thought profiling was bad?
Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics.
Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism. Usually supported by the far right, fascism is historically anti-communist, anti-conservative and anti-parliamentary. The Nazis’ rise to power was assisted by the Fascist government of Italy that began to financially subsidize the Nazi party in 1928.
Hitler admired Benito Mussolini and the Italian Fascists, and after Mussolini’s successful March on Rome in 1922, presented the Nazis as a German version of Italian Fascism. Hitler endorsed Italian Fascism, saying that “with the victory of fascism in Italy the Italian people has triumphed [over] Jewry” and appraised Mussolini as “the brilliant statesman”. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s chief propagandist, credited Italian Fascism with starting a conflict against liberal democracy, saying:
“The march on Rome was a signal, a sign of storm for liberal-democracy. It is the first attempt to destroy the world of the liberal-democratic spirit[...] which started in 1789 with the storm on the Bastille and conquered one country after another in violent revolutionary upheavals, to let... the nations go under in Marxism, democracy, anarchy and class warfare…”
…The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences within it. Adolf Hitler, both in public and in private, held strong disdain for capitalism; he accused modern capitalism of holding nations ransom in the interests of a parasitic cosmopolitan rentier class.
He opposed free-market capitalism’s profit-seeking impulses and desired an economy where community interests would be upheld. He distrusted capitalism for being unreliable, due to it having an egotistic nature, and he preferred a state-directed economy.
On the issue of capitalist materialism, Hitler said “It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will bow down before a higher god. Many things owe their existence solely to the longing for money and wealth, but there is very little among them whose non-existence would leave humanity any the poorer.”
Hitler told one party leader in 1934, “The economic system of our day,” referring to capitalism, “is the creation of the Jews.”
In a discussion with Italian Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, Hitler said that “Capitalism had run its course”. Hitler was disgusted by the bourgeoisie and in one conversation stated that business bourgeoisie “know nothing except their profit. ‘Fatherland’ is only a word for them.” Hitler admired Napoleon as a role model for his anti-conservative, anti-capitalist, and anti-bourgeois attitudes…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
His mother was Danish.
They’re probably right that he’s a Christian in some sense, but where are they getting the fundamentalist part? He doesn’t sound like a fundamentalist in the writings I’ve seen posted.
OK, something’s HALF-ROTTEN in Denmark :)
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