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Costly ALE guns fail, get traded
Charlotte Observer ^ | 02-06-43 | Michael Biesecker

Posted on 02/06/2011 9:34:42 AM PST by STONEWALLS

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To: Oatka
One thing I will say about "wearing out" guns is that daily wear does affect a gun. I had my duty HK for 2 years and pulled it out of my safe to find the front sight way over to one side. I found I could push the sight back and forth with just my hand. The finish on that gun and its replacement also get worn quickly. It might be easier to keep these guns longer if we had a real armorer, but we don't so the guns have to be sent back to a national center for work.

IF I was in a small state agency like the NC ALE I think I would be trying to get a weapon common to other state agencies, like the state police. make it cheaper and have a bigger supply pipeline.

21 posted on 02/06/2011 10:24:30 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: STONEWALLS
Agents also fired as many as 1,500 rounds with each pistol on the suggestion they needed to be "broken in."

Uh, sure thing.

22 posted on 02/06/2011 10:27:02 AM PST by smokingfrog ( BORN free - taxed to DEATH (and beyond) ...)
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To: STONEWALLS

I own a few Kimbers. They are fantastic weapons and very reliable.

I suspect the department either bought versions that were too accurized or were looking for an excuse to sell them back to their own agents.


23 posted on 02/06/2011 10:27:30 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Oatka

Winnah!

This isn’t about reliability, it’s really about a kind taxpayer funded money laundering.

All this means is that these pistols will end up in the private collections of the officers, and ALE will purchase another nice sidearm, use it for a few years and declare it worn out or not good enough, and so on and so on.

Somebody with some oversight ought to launch an investigation. The service life of a issue sidearm shouldn’t be a few years. Imagine if they were buying luxury cars for official use, then declaring them surplus and selling them on the cheap to agency workers every few months. This isn’t any different. It’s a racket, and not even a very discreet one.

In a perfect world, the next gun they’d get would be a S&W Model 10 M&P with one bullet kept in the shirt pocket.


24 posted on 02/06/2011 10:30:03 AM PST by M1911A1
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To: Iron Munro

They were probably purchased through Kimber’s custom shop.
The custom guns are manufactured with much tighter tolerances, and not as reliable if the gun is dirty.


25 posted on 02/06/2011 10:31:41 AM PST by smokingfrog ( BORN free - taxed to DEATH (and beyond) ...)
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To: STONEWALLS

Never owned a Kimber either. ALE is not exactly SWAT, though. I expect the guns probably sat around, got dirty, and failed to function- a common failing in semi-auto pistols, especially ones manufactured to close tolerances, as Kimbers are reputed to be. Perhaps they needed something a little more their speed...a 4” .38 revolver.....


26 posted on 02/06/2011 10:37:38 AM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: umgud
"Not al Kimber models enjoy the same level of reliability. My Colt has been rock solid, but my Glocks are my go-to guns."

I've pretty much owned them all in multiple numbers and calibers, and I still have them all. Colt, Glock, HK, SW.. even Para, Kimber,Springfield and countless others.
I have a real soft spot for my Colt combat, it's not really that anymore.. wilson barrel, custom trigger/slide.. you name it. I love the thing. It's the only one I want to shoot when I go out plinking.
However, when it comes right down to it and my demand is ultra-reliability and handling, I'll reach for a Sig every single time and bet my life on it. In particular, my P229.
My second choice is the HK USP. Both have proven rock solid reliability with any mixture of junk or common ammunition I have ever fed to them in any state of filth. I can't say that about any other handgun I have including the Glocks.
I'd take one of their "old worn out" sig's over a box full of anything else when it comes down to reliability, any day, any time.

27 posted on 02/06/2011 10:39:58 AM PST by FunkyZero ("It's not about duck hunting !")
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To: STONEWALLS

A Taurus .38 6 shot is cheap, reliable, and and easy carry. Leave the expensive guns to the citizens.


28 posted on 02/06/2011 10:43:01 AM PST by struggle ((The struggle continues))
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To: STONEWALLS
"Agents also fired as many as 1,500 rounds with each pistol on the suggestion they needed to be "broken in.""

If you ever get this answer from a manufacturer, go get your money back.
A properly built firearm does not require a 1500 round breaking in period in order to function correctly.
You should be able to clean the packing grease out of it, re-assemble and use reliably.
If the machine is built THAT tight with THAT many burrs and sharp edges, it is not finished and should be considered flawed.

Yes, they should get smoother over time as with anything else mechanical, but the minimum requirement is that it function properly when new.
I got this answer from ArmaLite once and they promptly got their weapon back in return for my money.

29 posted on 02/06/2011 10:48:54 AM PST by FunkyZero ("It's not about duck hunting !")
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To: STONEWALLS

Did the A.L.E. look the Kimbers up in “Gun Test” first?

And How many life and death situations does the A.L.E. find itself in on a yearly basis?


30 posted on 02/06/2011 10:50:53 AM PST by fella (.He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: M1911A1
This isn’t about reliability, it’s really about a kind taxpayer funded money laundering.

What a sweet scam for ripping off the taxpayer. Buy a top-of-the-line firearm, carry it for a few years, and then bad-mouth it with some total BS. Then have the same moron (who probably considers himself an expert) pick some other expensive toy, and everybody gets the discount purchase of as many of the older pieces as they want. And instantly collectible with custom engraving.

And except for target rifle barrels, I consider every one of my weapons "broken in" at 100 rounds. If there's still some problem left, I'll at least know what it will take to fix it.

31 posted on 02/06/2011 11:04:00 AM PST by 300winmag (Overkill never fails)
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To: Vinnie

Ditto Springfield XD. And Taurus makes a sweet 1911 for about $500. But then, that’s spending my own money, not the taxpayers’.


32 posted on 02/06/2011 11:05:57 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

“This is the criteria that the old military used in selecting a model to best protect their commanders. They chose the Colt model 1911 hands down.”

What were the other choices 100 years ago? Specifically regarding semi-auto pistols?

For the past 3 decades just about every military and law enforcement agency in the world has chosen some other pistol than the 1911 and some other caliber than .45 ACP.


33 posted on 02/06/2011 11:17:33 AM PST by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: notdownwidems

I have the custom shop Ultra CDP II in .45 and would bet my life on it’s reliability.

Somethings fishy here.


34 posted on 02/06/2011 11:31:46 AM PST by devistate one four ( AARP: Anti America Retired People Kimber CDP II .45 OORAH! TET68)
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To: TxDas
Two points:
The competition against 1911 Colt was primarily the '08 Luger, which was pretty as heck but useless if dirty.
And, I believe that just about every special operations unit that could do so has returned to the .45 due to crummy results using a 9mm.
35 posted on 02/06/2011 11:51:05 AM PST by norton
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To: devistate one four

Yes, those morons probably don’t know how to shoot straight or clean their weapons, I’m guessing. The Kimber is a little difficult to break down and clean


36 posted on 02/06/2011 11:54:12 AM PST by notdownwidems (Vote Republican! We're 1/10 of 1% better than the other guys!)
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To: TxDas

Agreed, although I think the .45ACP is still an excellent choice for a defensive handgun. I love the 1911 but there isn’t a model built by anyone today that could stand up to the abuse that a Glock will take.


37 posted on 02/06/2011 11:54:51 AM PST by cbvanb
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To: TxDas

“For the past 3 decades just about every military and law enforcement agency in the world has chosen some other pistol than the 1911 and some other caliber than .45 ACP.”

The 9mm came into use because of the Europeans in NATO.


38 posted on 02/06/2011 12:16:47 PM PST by A Strict Constructionist (Oligarchy...never vote for the Ivy League candidate.)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

I will only carry a 1911.It has stood the test of time.


39 posted on 02/06/2011 12:17:30 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: MaxMax

I had a POS Kimber Ultra Carry II. Kimber seems to have very inconsistent quality control for the inflated prices.


40 posted on 02/06/2011 12:18:21 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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