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To: allmendream
The ends do NOT justify the means to a moral person.

Please, not this again. It's just not true.

Can we agree war is a horrible means? Mass murder and destruction? Yet most sane people will agree that war is sometimes justified as a means to prevent a particularly horrible end. WWII, for instance.

Some ends are themselves evil and do not justify any means.

Some ends justify most means. Preventing Hitler from ruling the world, for example.

Most people would agree that harsh interrogation and even true tortuer are justified to save innocent lives.

Some means are not justified by any end, IMO. For example, mistreating or torturing an innocent family member of a terrorist. Even to save innocent lives.

So does the end justify the means?

Depends entirely on the end and the means involved.

27 posted on 01/24/2011 10:23:58 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

It is true.

The ends do not justify the means.

War is not an evil unto itself, provoking an unjust war is.

The Communists thought that mass murder was an acceptable price to pay for the ends of a Communist Paradise.

Most people in a Capitalist society don’t think mass murder is an acceptable price to pay to continue with our way of life - but luckily with Capitalism such is not a necessity - while with Communism it is.

Torture is not something the USA engages in, we use “harsh interrogation methods” - not torture.

The torture of an innocent would never be justified, whatever the “ends” you sought.


29 posted on 01/24/2011 10:32:52 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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