Stem-Cell Fraud

Investor's Business Daily ^ | November 28, 2010 | IBD staff

[Gondring]

When was the last baby murdered or had its body parts used?

[dcwusmc]

When the last pre-born baby was ripped from its mother’s womb and its cells harvested for experimentation... It’s a given that I believe life begins at conception. I take it you do not.

[Munz]

too bad your unable to read apparently. I cant imagine the amount of times I have said in this thread alone that I do not support abortion or the killing of babies to further stem cell research. yet you act as if i do.

How dishonest is THAT???

[Munz]

did I ever say that they were the same? NO
and before you jump on the band wagon I do not support abortion to further stem cell research. I am just asking people to be knowledgeable about alternatives and how far procedures have come. therefore please make distinctions when you advocate for or against stem cell research between adults being harvested for their own stem cells and abortions.

[Munz]

I posted a link to REAL cures using stem cell research. It has nothing to do with fraud. I was simply passing along a link that some types of stem cell research works. Not all of them are the same and should not be lumped into the same category.

[Munz]

EXCUSE ME!

I proved my point that you are in fact part of the problem that I was addressing. The problem you have is you refuse to see beyond your own comments.

There was nothing disingenuous on my part, YOU were the one who challenged me to find ANYONE who made such comments and I started with YOU!

I don’t care how you posted it, you made the statement without any context. Maybe it was a private joke between you and someone else. It does not matter. Other people read it and it does damage because clearly it was in NO context at all.

It was 100% against all stem cell research and directly equated all stem cell research with embryonic stem cell research.

You said it not me. You proved my point quite nicely. Nothing on my part, all on yours.

you SAID again:

“Embryonic Stem Cell Research will still be referred to as “Stem Cell Research”!

did you or did you not? This is no joke to people who suffer while you can make jokes about it.

[Munz]

well you know, some people got something out of it who are suffering. They appreciated the link so much that they sent me private notes expressing that.

Maybe your just not getting the fact that it is not all bad. That to support some types of stem cell research is okay.
that it can help people without killing anyone.

is that clear enough?

[Munz]

I understand that. But I think that some pro lifers don’t fully understand that there are some stem cell researching going on that are beneficial that harm no one. I also posted my original link for anyone who may have an interest in stem cell research that has actually been working that is self donated.

I am not against pro lifers, Ii am not for abortion either.
I am however for stem cell research done is some fashions that can be very useful and am just encouraging people to know that treatments are now becoming available.

Thanks for not jumping on me and just making a point in a very civil manner. I appreciate that. I think that is what we all come here for. Rational discussions and knowledge. Even a bit of hope sometimes, which I was trying to give.

[dcwusmc]

You have been all over the map and put more spin on than even Slick Willie used to do!!! Your most common comment was to the effect that NO research should be outlawed, just because YOU hurt some. Too bad, slick, but not bad enough to get any sympathy from me. Been there (long before you), done that, got the T-shirt. Still have the pain, no end in sight. Still believe life begins at conception and that abortion for any reason is murder.

[dcwusmc]

And this article is about the fraud involved with Embryonic Stem Cell research in California. YOUR comments were pretty disingenuous from the get-go.

[Gondring]

When the last pre-born baby was ripped from its mother’s womb and its cells harvested for experimentation...

Please tell us when that was. (Of course, it wasn't anything to do with embryonic stem cells, since the blastocysts wouldn't have been in the womb even if they ever were in a woman's body, but please humor me even if this discussion is off-topic.)

[dangus]

>> These days, it’s the opponents who are as dishonest as the proponents, though. That’s what burns me up. <<

You obviously have profoundly different values and beliefs as proponents. It’s rather sad that you insist that proponents are therefore dishonest when they make statements that reflect those differing values. To wit:

>> Of course, that’s where nearly of the advanced research has been. And the advanced in adult-cell research relied upon things learned from embryonic-cell research—techniques because that wouldn’t have been available without embryonic research. <<

Not at all true. Profoundly untrue. States have spent billions on research which mandates (preversely) that fetal/embryonic/blastocytic stem cells alone be used.

>> I don’t know of a single place in the entire world that is working with fetal stem-cells rather than either adult or embryonic/blastocystic-derived lines. <<

That’s a distinction without a difference for four reasons:

1. Most people understand “fetal” to mean all preborn humans.

2. Googling “blastocytic stem cell research” appears to be a term invented by lay apologists for preborn-humans stem cell research. Even when the companies performing embryonic stem-cell research actually are using blastocytes, they don’t use that term.

3. The REASON people don’t learn such a distinction is that few people hold a moral distinction between killing a fetus and killing an embryo. There isn’t even a term to differentiate between an induced abortion of an embryo and an induced abortion of a fetus, even though the procedures are vastly different.

4. Embryonic and blastocytic stem cell research will lead to technologies which involve fetus harvesting, since that’ll be a far cheaper means of procuring significant numbers of cells.

>> 1) without embryonic research, we wouldn’t have gotten there, <<

Says who? If the successes are on adult stem cell, how can you possibly assert those successes wouldn’t have come about if the early research had used adult stem cells?

>> 2) because of the restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research, we’re not nearly as far along and don’t know yet what might be capable, and <<

Meaningless, since there ARE no restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, only on federally funded stem cell research.

>> 3) no embryos need to be killed for this research—it can continue by using existing lines and generating lines from embryos being destroyed every day anyway. <<

Using discarded IVF embryos or abortion products cheapens those procedures, making them more common. So anyone who opposes those procedures must oppose using the “byproducts” (i.e., human remains) of those procedures. Further, what do you think will happen should one of those lines of research become successful? You’ll create a permanent market for killing preborn human beings.

[dangus]

>> I also posted my original link for anyone who may have an interest in stem cell research that has actually been working that is self donated. <<

The purpose of your posting seemed to be an attempt to refute the notion that embryonic stem cell research is unnecessary. You did not make the distinction between embryonic stem cell research and adult stem cell research, so don’t criticize the pro-life community when they are, in general, making every effort to do so. And it seems unwarranted to complain that pro-lifers are leaving people confused when it’s the supporters of embryonic stem cell research who are purposely confusing people.

[Blue Collar Christian]

You have “clarified” quite well that you do not support EMBRYONIC stem cell research if it involves killing embryos. But not til after you stated that embryonic stem cells harvested form aborted children and used for research was OK with you because women are going to get abortions anyway. You also stated, that if the pain was bad enough, you would do anything for relief.

Those are not compatible statements, my young friend, and I believe you are not focused, as reasoning with you is like trying to talk sense into a drunk person.

Bubye, and God bless you in your quest for relief.

[Munz]

>You have “clarified” quite well that you do not support EMBRYONIC stem cell research if it involves killing embryos. But not til after you stated that embryonic stem cells harvested form aborted children and used for research was OK with you because women are going to get abortions anyway.<

True and I hold to that. There are reasonable and acceptable reasons for abortion in my mind. I do not advocate allowing these unborns to just be heaped in the trash.
I am not talking about abortion for the sake of they just don’t want the child. I am talking mostly medical reasons if not all.

>You also stated, that if the pain was bad enough, you would do anything for relief.<

within my bounds, so lets not go beyond that. If i do not advocate abortion for grins, then certainly i would not do that.

[Munz]

you seem to be pretty well informed having no knowledge at all about me. I’ll just chalk it up to ignorance and arrogance.

[Blue Collar Christian]

Shh, listen, can you hear the crickets?

[dcwusmc]

Just chalk it up to actually having read your posts and been disgusted by them.

[dcwusmc]

Yeah, but, with respect to your last comment, so far God has seen fit to not allow it to happen. I pray He never does!

[Munz]

>Just chalk it up to actually having read your posts and been disgusted by them.<

So that is how you came up with

>YOU hurt some.<

and
>Been there (long before you)<

from my posts you can determine the amount of pain I am in and the length of time that I have had it?

You must be the Amazing Kreskin!

OR

Full of crap.

And Kreskin .. you ain’t