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Obama Praises Indian Chief Who Killed U.S. General
Fox News ^ | November 15, 2010

Posted on 11/17/2010 6:21:28 AM PST by USALiberty

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To: dirtboy

***You are about the only one here buying what you are selling regarding Chivington.***

Perhaps it is because I ended up with some books on the REAL history of the Indian wars at that time and not the pablum from the modern revisionists.
I have found that many of the “evil” indians were really not so evil and some of the “innocent Indians” were anything but innocent.

The plains Indians were divided into two groups..Those allied with the US, and those hostile to the US. We had NO WARS with those allied with us.

Fresh white scalps in a “friendly” indian village say a lot.

Now, get me started on the Washita!


141 posted on 11/17/2010 10:32:39 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: All

Anyone who claims the white man taught the red man about war and atrocities is either a liar or a fool.....
American Indians were just as adept at slavery and savagery as any people whoever lived, all BEFORE the white man came along and dragged this country out of the stone age....


142 posted on 11/17/2010 10:34:00 AM PST by Maverick68
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Perhaps it is because I ended up with some books on the REAL history of the Indian wars at that time and not the pablum from the modern revisionists.

Yet an official investigation into Sand Creek, along with eyewitness testimony, refutes everything you have said about Chivington.

So I'd say you are being wilfully blind to historical reality here. This is not modern historical revisionism. These judgements were carried out shortly after Sand Creek.

You may have the last word, as trying to reason with you on this subject is about as fruitful as trying to reason with a farm animal.

143 posted on 11/17/2010 10:37:37 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Sherman Logan
For those of you debating Sand Creek, you may be interested in this...
144 posted on 11/17/2010 10:41:06 AM PST by bcsco
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To: wtc911
Where did you go to school?

I went to a variety of places, all of which taught me a great appreciation of sarcasm.

145 posted on 11/17/2010 10:42:08 AM PST by FourPeas (Pester not the geek, for the electrons are his friends.)
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To: jiminycricket000

jiminycricket000.. Sir, I like the cut of your jib!


146 posted on 11/17/2010 10:57:40 AM PST by itsLUCKY2B (?Borders, Language, and Culture.?)
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To: bcsco

Thanks for the link, that is interesting.


147 posted on 11/17/2010 11:02:03 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: bcsco
U.S. volunteer soldiers

So they were United States Army troops?

148 posted on 11/17/2010 11:16:01 AM PST by ansel12 (Mitt Romney supporter, and anti-tea party figure, Eric Cantor, won this battle.)
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To: bcsco

It’s been many years since I taught Montana History, but I remember a lecturer coming to my school and showing a military button found over 3 miles from the Battleground. He said that if National Park service said it happened this way, then, by golly all evidence was transferred to the last stand area to conform to official accounts. I’ll defer to your expertise, however, it seems you are pretty well read up on the battle of the little Bighorn. In any regard, it was the last great stand by the American plains Indian. From that point on the tribes would be systematically forced on reservations, starved, etc.


149 posted on 11/17/2010 11:31:33 AM PST by 2nd Amendment
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To: ansel12

The 3rd CO Volunteers, one of the regiments involved, were hundred day volunteers, which means they certainly weren’t trained veteran soldiers.

Don’t know about other formations.


150 posted on 11/17/2010 11:35:27 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: bcsco

Thanks!


151 posted on 11/17/2010 11:39:40 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?)
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To: Logic n' Reason

Yes my friend, they were barbaric, if they weren’t, then no people have been so.


152 posted on 11/17/2010 11:47:50 AM PST by ansel12 (Mitt Romney supporter, and anti-tea party figure, Eric Cantor, won this battle.)
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To: dirtboy

***So I’d say you are being wilfully blind to historical reality here. This is not modern historical revisionism. These judgements were carried out shortly after Sand Creek.***

Ever since the army was recalled from the frontier to fight in the Civil War, the indians went on the warpath every sspring and summer, making peace in the winter. After so many settlers were murdered that summer CHIVINGTON handed it back to the indians in spades. He used the indian’s own RULES OF ENGAGEMENT against them, Spare no living thing!

The Indians could dish it out but could not take it!

The Easterners were still filled with Victorian sentiments about war , till Mathew Brady’s photos showed them the real face of WAR! And when CHIVINGTON fought the INDIANS according to their own method of warfare (Kill every living thing) the Easterners went into revulsion over it. The Army needed a scapegoat and Chivington was it! Again, Chivington NEVER backed down from what he had done.


153 posted on 11/17/2010 11:56:06 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: Sherman Logan

I knew that but that link gave the impression that it was the United States Army, not a Colorado militia, something that is pretty common.


154 posted on 11/17/2010 11:56:52 AM PST by ansel12 (Mitt Romney supporter, and anti-tea party figure, Eric Cantor, won this battle.)
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To: Sherman Logan

***Actually the Indian war intensified after Sand Creek. He made the situation much worse.****

How did it make the situation worse? Every warrior was required each year to “prove his worth” to the tribe and enhance his tribal status by killing, scalping, stealing from their “enemies or preceived enemies like settlers. So even if Chivington had not dished it out at Sand Creek as the Indians had been doing, the Indians would have still went on the warpath the next year as they always did, peace treaty or no peace treaty. It was built into their social structure.


155 posted on 11/17/2010 12:11:26 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: 2nd Amendment

As I mentioned earlier. One officer is believed to have escaped the area but was killed during that escape. His remains were never found. It’s conceivable that button came from him. I’m not familiar with its finding.

However, the Indians clothed themselves with the 7th’s uniforms. It’s also possible findings such as this, away from the scene, could as well have come from them.


156 posted on 11/17/2010 12:21:29 PM PST by bcsco
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To: 2nd Amendment
Don't have time to go into much right now, I have to leave shortly. But, here's a map of relics discovered at or near the battlefield over the years (not including those of the various archaeological digs from the 1984-85 dig or after...).

If you look at the top of the map, you'll see item 21C rests outside the boundary. It's listed as "1 metal button". This MAY be what you're referring to. Obviously, there's no spacial reference to be made on how far out of the boundary it was found. But let me go over the book this is from, "Evidence and the Custer Enigma" by Jerome Greene and see what I can find. I seem to recall something mentioned, but it's been awhile. It'll be tomorrow before I can get back on this...

Photobucket

157 posted on 11/17/2010 12:44:47 PM PST by bcsco
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To: ansel12
Yes my friend, they were barbaric

By whose definition?? Not just yours, I hope. I'm sure you have sources to back up your opinion...from both sides???

Oh, of course you do...silly me!

I'm sure we'd all love to know about them. Hows about sharing....you little barbarian, you!!!

158 posted on 11/17/2010 1:20:01 PM PST by Logic n' Reason (You can roll a turd in powered sugar; that don't make it a jelly donut)
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To: Logic n' Reason

Wow, that was quite a post there. Ignorant, childish, and just plain silly.


159 posted on 11/17/2010 1:52:18 PM PST by ansel12 (Mitt Romney supporter, and anti-tea party figure, Eric Cantor, won this battle.)
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To: Psalm 144

Old Hickory saw first hand the horrible atrocities committed on American civilians by Indian savages who allied themselves with the Redcoats during The Revolutionary War.

In his mind Jackson owed the Indian nothing because they picked the side they were on.


160 posted on 11/17/2010 7:40:12 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Why a duck?")
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