Posted on 10/20/2010 10:33:37 PM PDT by Moseley
You are very confused.
There are two (2) sides to the First Amendment’s clause on religion.
On the one hand, the government may not establish a particular religion as the official religion of the United States.
There must be NO place in American life where religion is not welcome, otherwise the free exercise of religion is violated.
The fact that there is NO place in American life closed to religion DOES NOT mean that the government is then establish a religion.
For example, if many religions are found in government, government is not establishing an official religion.
Where you are wrong is that government acknowledgement of God and of religion is not establishing a religion.
Government support of religion generally, without saying which one is better or “correct” is allowed under free exercise.
The US Supreme Court has wandered all over the map. US Supreme Court judges criticize the US Supreme Court’s modern decisions in dissents.
You are also confused by “allowing” a prayer versus the government or public school LEADING students in a prayer.
The government *MUST* allow citizens to engage in religious activity, including in government fora, government buildings, etc.
The citizens doing something is not the same as the government doing it.
The government may allow only Christian prayer, but MUST allow private citizens to pray any way the citizens want.
That has nothing to do the government LEADNG prayer.
“The government may allow only Christian prayer, but MUST allow private citizens to pray any way the citizens want.”
Please re-read your statements. How does this tie into the First Amendment??? The ultimate litmus test to this statement is to allow Muslim prayer alongside Christian prayer. Is this allowed in America? Where does it say in the Constitution that we must follow the rules for Christians only?
Your statement is completely DANGEROUS to the freedom of religion overall. Sorry, but the government must allow ALL prayer and allow private citizens ALL prayer, or prevent ALL prayer in government and allow private citizens ALL prayer.
People, please get a grip here. It’s either all or nothing. The law is clear. If you want prayer in government, it must allow equal and non-preferential treatment of all religions. If you want preferential treatment for for a particular religion, by all means move to Rome, London, or Rijahd. They have a wonderful bias. I guess you believe that bias was so “welcome” to the framing fathers they embraced this system from the start. If you believe this, I have some swampland in North Korea for sale.
“I hope we do agree on this: The intent in the founding documents, and the message in Jefferson’s letter was to assure that the United States would never had an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT mandated religion, such as was the case in England with the Church of England.”
No, the intent of the founding fathers was to not have a government who has any type of endorsement, preferential treatment, or establishment of ANY religion, regardless as to whether it’s Christian or not.
They understood that Deists were very powerful at the time. They didn’t want their control over the nation either. They understood that religious endoctrination of any kind was self-defeating.
Again, I will go back to the original documents. Christianity was NOT found in the original Constitution and for good reason. No, Christianity wasn’t the only founding principles of the United States. The framing fathers were extremely intelligent. They knew there were inherent flaws in existing Christian legal system. It was far from perfect as Britain was clear evidence of the massive amounts of corrupt and mis-appropriated power that was prevalent there.
“No, the intent of the founding fathers was to not have a government who has any type of endorsement, preferential treatment, or establishment of ANY religion, regardless as to whether it’s Christian or not.”
You are incorrect...the first draft contained the words:
“Shall pass no law respecting any denomination....”
I don’t have it with me here at work, but the dictionary of that time frame, defined “Diests” the opposite of what is accepted today. Evey wonder why Franklin (labeled a Diests) would call for PRAYER during the deliberations for the Declaration of Indepence if he believed God has NO direct intervnetion in the affairs of man?
Ever wonder why Jefferson built a chapel in the University of Virginia?
Ever wondered why John Adams said that the revolution forever created a bond between civil government and Christianity? In fact, Adams said that if it did NOT, then the revolution was in vain.
Ever wonder why Jefferson demanded Chaplians...not Rabbis, not Inmans, for the military and for Congress?
Every state at the founding of our nation had their own state prefered Christian denominations...did the federal goverment step in and abolish them? No...but Jefferson did inform that one would not be given preferential treatment versus another.
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