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Debtflation (and gold prices)
casey research ^ | 9 29 10 | David Galland

Posted on 09/29/2010 7:52:18 AM PDT by dennisw


Debtflation


By David Galland, Managing Editor, The Casey Report


We recently received the following comment in our Q&A Knowledge Base.
 

    Investors should be prepared to sell gold as either increased inflation expectations or doubts around debt sustainability force a sharp increase in US Treasury bond yields. Simply put, in an environment of high real interest rates, the allure of gold could disappear as quickly as it did in the early 1980s when Paul Volcker took control of the Federal Reserve.


My response…


First off, I want to congratulate the reader for trying to anticipate the conditions that might mark the end of the gold bull market. Because, make no mistake, the gold bull market will come to an end – and when it does, it’s not going to be pretty for those who stubbornly stay too long at the party.


As to the possible triggers for gold’s big sell-off, the reader’s contention is directionally correct when he points out that this could occur when real interest rates (T-bill rates minus CPI) become high enough. At that point, as a non-yielding asset, gold will become less attractive to investors looking for income. And, gold will fall. 


However, the situation today is significantly different than during Volcker’s term as the head of the Fed.


The first difference can be seen in the chart here that I just dredged out of the archives of The Casey Report. Besides painting a picture that many of you will think obvious – that inflation is the biggest driver of interest rates – you can also see that gold’s stunning rise in the second half of the 1970s occurred during a period of strongly rising interest rates. So, rising interest rates and rising gold prices are not mutually exclusive.

 

alt

 

The second difference between now and then becomes clear in the next chart showing that while there certainly was an inflation problem during Volcker’s reign, there definitely was not a debt problem. At least not compared to today.

alt

The implications of the nation’s current debt load loom large in this discussion. Aggressively raising interest rates, as Volcker did back in the day, would not just dent today’s U.S. economy, it would destroy it. As it would evaporate a significant amount of the trillions of dollars now sitting in government debt, much of it held by pensioners.


Put another way, Volcker raised interest rates as energetically as he did because he could. Today, that couldn’t happen – at least not without pushing the U.S. economy into a death spiral. That’s why we’ve long compared the scenario faced by today’s policy makers to being stuck between “a rock and a hard place.”


While the smoking ruin solution I wrote about a few weeks ago – where the government steps aside and lets the free market do its worst, so that it can then do its best – is certainly possible, the more likely scenario is that the Treasury and the Fed will keep reacting to each new chapter in the crisis by further degrading the currency in the hopes that at some point the debt becomes manageable. Of course, there is the real risk that at some point along the path, our creditors will lose faith and demand higher interest rates.


But what happens if interest rates begin to move up based on credit concerns, and not in response to a noticeable uptick in price inflation? At that point, couldn’t we see positive real interest rates relative to CPI – therefore reducing gold’s appeal?


If interest rates begin to rise for any reason – including concerns over creditworthiness – the obvious damage to the economy and to the government’s ability to service its debts will only heighten concerns over repayment. Almost overnight, creditors will begin to fear either overt debt defaults or the covert default of yet more inflation, and demand even higher rates.


At that point, with interest rates beginning to spiral, few people will be looking to buy bonds but will remain fixated on the return of capital, versus return on capital.
Being repetitious, debt is the single biggest economic challenge facing the U.S. – and much of the developed world. In time this debt will get resolved, it always does, but it’s not going to be pretty.


As I see it, unlike the inflation of the 1970s that could be treated with a strong dose of tight monetary policy, the debtflation we now face can only be resolved through default. Given that no U.S. government will want to join the ranks of history’s sovereign deadbeats, the inflation option remains the most likely course.


And in that scenario, gold is still a solid investment and so should be a core portfolio holding.

----

Casey Research



TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gold
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1 posted on 09/29/2010 7:52:22 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw; jiggyboy; PA Engineer; blam; TigerLikesRooster; Cheap_Hessian; CJinVA; Jet Jaguar; ...

ping to jiggy group


2 posted on 09/29/2010 7:53:25 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw
"And in that scenario, gold is still a solid investment and so should be a core portfolio holding.

I'm in agreement.

"There's no peaceful way back from here."

3 posted on 09/29/2010 7:59:18 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

John Paulson could be lying but he said 80% of his investments were gold and gold related


4 posted on 09/29/2010 8:05:54 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

Liquidity Trap...hold your gold.


5 posted on 09/29/2010 8:06:23 AM PDT by demsux (Obama: THE job destroyer)
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To: blam

Actually, eliminating our deficit is not that hard:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703989304575504221128887634.html

All that is required is some cojones inside the Beltway. The elections of 2010 and 2012 provide an excellent opportunity to elevate the testosterone level in Congress and the WH.


6 posted on 09/29/2010 8:09:31 AM PDT by DrC
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To: dennisw
[T]he gold bull market will come to an end – and when it does...

...the major players will know log before the small investor.

7 posted on 09/29/2010 8:11:45 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both.)
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To: dennisw
Given that no U.S. government will want to join the ranks of history’s sovereign deadbeats, the inflation option remains the most likely course.

Inflation is a different name for deadbeatery but it is deadbeatery all the same. It just stretches out the process a bit.

8 posted on 09/29/2010 8:19:09 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: dennisw

If he’s touting it he’s already in and looking to pump, then sell into the final runup. Happens every time.


9 posted on 09/29/2010 8:26:10 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: blam

>>”There’s no peaceful way back from here.”<<

No matter how we get out of this, that statement will hold true. I am amazed by all the links and articles I’ve read that discuss the economic ramifications of everything going on but they ignore the 800 lb gorilla in the room. As I was arguing with JasonC and some others here a couple years ago who said that a collapse would just mean more investment opportunity, I told them their “post collapse investment strategy” might hit a snag if Wall street is a sea of radioactive glass.

Desperate times call for desperate actions - by people AND countries. Just read a history book.


10 posted on 09/29/2010 8:33:21 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: dennisw

>>John Paulson could be lying but he said 80% of his investments were gold and gold related<<

In my case it’s silver and my farm in Kentucky. and one of the reasons it’s silver is that I don’t have all that much - yet.

And it is all in the context of my tag line.


11 posted on 09/29/2010 8:34:38 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: DrC

>>All that is required is some cojones inside the Beltway.<<

I agree. But I am not as sanguine as you about the possibility of doing that. I don’t think any human being on the planet has cojones close to big enough, unless the antiChrist is about to finally do that thing that will amaze everyone.

And that isn’t exactly good news, except it lets us know what’s next. Thing appear to need to get worse before they get better because there is NO human solution for this. We passed that point a while back. Actually, maybe ten or more years ago.


12 posted on 09/29/2010 8:43:12 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: arthurus
And, it spreads that pain around by degrading every ones wealth (except for people holding gold, silver and land).
13 posted on 09/29/2010 8:43:19 AM PDT by 2001convSVT ("Repeal ObamaCare")
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To: dennisw

No-one will trust a high rate yield from the Fed. Unless the Fed sells federal assets, or cuts spending in half the dollar has only one place to go.

Sometime between now and 2012, the dollar will sharply depreciate to 1/4 of its current value. It won’t hyperinflate from there unless Obama is allowed to increase the pay of public sector workers by four times (which would then exactly mirror the actions of the German govt in 1921).

But that depreciation is going to be cruel on anyone who is still in cash, or bonds, or anything dependent on fiat currency.


14 posted on 09/29/2010 8:55:11 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: RobRoy

Argentina hit a sharp depreciation in 2002. Nothing got nuked. Mad Max (= total collapse of society) didn’t happen then, and it won’t happen in the US.

The middle class were savaged in Argentina and (if they don’t buy Gold) they will be savaged in America. That’s bad - but it’s not going to the next episode in the Fallout franchise.


15 posted on 09/29/2010 9:02:04 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: agere_contra

>>Argentina hit a sharp depreciation in 2002.<<

We’re not Argentina, or Japan, or Zimbabwe. Remember the “sharp depreciation of the 1930’s. Someone WAS actually nuked over that one. That is the kind of thing I am talking about.

This thing is global. Greece, Iceland, Spain, UK, Portugal, the US, etc. I don’t necessarily think it will go Mad Max (though I admit that every month the odds in favor of it increase), but my “sea of glass” comment is just a metaphor to make the point that this is not just economic. Countries really do go to war over things like this.

It is irresponsible not to consider that possibility in one’s preparation.


16 posted on 09/29/2010 9:09:16 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: agere_contra

>>The middle class were savaged in Argentina and (if they don’t buy Gold) they will be savaged in America. That’s bad - but it’s not going to the next episode in the Fallout franchise.<<

I should point out that I think we are approaching a “perfect storm” of biblical proportions that has been building for over a century. It is economic, political and cultural in nature.


17 posted on 09/29/2010 9:10:40 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: RobRoy

Few bags of junk silver would be nice in rural Kentucky. Gold attracts too much attention in the local gossip mill


18 posted on 09/29/2010 10:23:55 AM PDT by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confuscius.)
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To: dennisw

As far as gold, silver and land — it’s better to have SOME than NONE. But to trust in THEM alone is as foolish as to trust in fiat dollars. Trust in God alone. PLAN for all contingencies. Anticipate as many scenarios as you possibly can. But, have faith in God.


19 posted on 09/29/2010 11:04:50 AM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: BenLurkin
...the major players will know log before the small investor.
Despite crows strutting around with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight elephants aren't omniscient. The spirit moves them so they panic and stampede. Some elephants get stomped during a stampede.
20 posted on 09/29/2010 12:15:28 PM PDT by Milhous (Confusion to our enemies.)
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