Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Solar Aero's bladeless wind turbine
Green.yahoo.com ^ | May 4, 2010 | Philip Proefrock

Posted on 07/31/2010 9:04:59 AM PDT by Abathar

A research company in New Hampshire recently announced the patent of their bladeless wind turbine, which is based on a patent issued to Nikola Tesla in 1913. The Fuller Wind Turbine developed by Solar Aero has only one rotating part, the turbine-driveshaft. The entire assembly is contained inside a housing, so that this turbine offers several advantages versus blade-style (primarily horizontal-axis type) turbines. With a screened inlet and outlet, this turbine does not present a danger to wildlife such as bats and birds. To an outside observer, the only movement visible is the entire turbine housing as it adjusts to track the wind. This also makes it a good candidate for use near military surveillance and radar installations, where moving blades would otherwise cause difficulties.

According to the company, the turbine is expected to deliver power at a cost comparable to coal-fired power plants. Total operating costs over the lifetime of the unit are expected to be about $0.12/kWh. The turbine also should have fewer maintenance requirements, leading to lower lifetime operating costs. The turbine itself can also be supported on magnetic bearings, and all of the generating equipment kept at ground level, which will also make maintenance easier. The company estimates "final costs will be about $1.50/watt rated output, or roughly 2/3 the cost of comparable bladed units."

(Excerpt) Read more at green.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: greenpower; tesla; turbines; windmills; windturbine; windturbines
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Tesla patented this almost 100 years ago, interesting concept if I understand it correctly. This could reduce the bird chopping ginsu blades and low frequency thumping of the current turbines we are using. It is probably much safer for all involved also if you have ever seen one of the current style turbines self destruct.

1 posted on 07/31/2010 9:05:01 AM PDT by Abathar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Bladeless fans on the market for home use; had never seen one, until recently and they are quite amazing and have a fine asthetic, especially, for a fan.


2 posted on 07/31/2010 9:08:16 AM PDT by cricket ( flies don't lie. . .message sent to the man who would be King.. . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cricket

Dyson makes one. I was at a store and felt this breeze hitting me, I was looking around to see where it was coming from and there was this round ring sitting there.

Thought it was kind of cool until I spotted the $300 price tag on it, that kind of cooled it coolness for me.


3 posted on 07/31/2010 9:10:50 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Sounds like they are planning on marketing a version for homes and farms based on what I read at their website:
“Reduced life-cycle costs make the unit desirable for urban rooftops and for use where support and maintenance infrastructure is limited.”


4 posted on 07/31/2010 9:13:43 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Abathar; cricket

Was the Dyson fan really as good as they make it sound?

I was interested in purchasing one, not to use as a fan per-say, but just to study its working.

I cannot understand how they managed to produce a powerful breeze by using a base-mounted fan blowing air through an annular ring. It just doesn’t compute.


5 posted on 07/31/2010 9:14:18 AM PDT by James C. Bennett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Abathar
Every far used to have a windmill.

If they can make the technology work and cost competitive, we will see things like this on rooftops across America.

A very big if.

6 posted on 07/31/2010 9:15:22 AM PDT by FatherofFive (0bama is dangerous and must be stopped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RobRoy

Revenge against the government.

How can they tax utilities if you don’t use THEIR utilities.


7 posted on 07/31/2010 9:16:49 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

That’s probably why it’s $300. Lots of research and design.


8 posted on 07/31/2010 9:19:43 AM PDT by wastedyears (The Founders revolted for less.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

If you live near a Best Buy Store you can see them displayed.


9 posted on 07/31/2010 9:20:30 AM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Dyson may have something to say about this.

Already selling a home based product.


10 posted on 07/31/2010 9:20:34 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

It is really neat, a steady stream of air with no pulsations in it, rather like a steady breeze when you are up close.

It’s not the resonating frequency you get from a regular fan like the commercial says, once you know to look for it you realize it’s not there.


11 posted on 07/31/2010 9:21:03 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Marty62

He got the patent issued so it must be different from what Dyson is using.


12 posted on 07/31/2010 9:22:59 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Neither the picture, the diagrams or the explanation provide meaningful description of how this works. None demonstrate airflow transference to torque or even direction of flow. Can anyone explain this better?


13 posted on 07/31/2010 9:24:17 AM PDT by downtownconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

1) If it has a rotating turbine-driveshaft, even internal, you can’t say that it has “no moving parts”.

2) Those wind screens will significantly reduce the energy available.

3) The “bird kill” thing is way overblown anyway; outside of Altamont Pass, which was built in just about the worst place you could put a wind farm with just the worst turbine design you could have used, it’s a minor issue.

There actually is a wind power generator system with no moving parts (with the possible exception of pumps), although it’s not a turbine. There’s a type of electrostatic wind generator. Water droplets are allowed to blow off from sharp protrusions at high altitude. They land on another electrode or on the ground, building up an electrostatic potential. That is, to say, any small natural negative charge on the tower tends to negatively charge the droplets due to the tight field lines, which amplifies the charge differential when they’re blown away. The wind does the work of separating charge by pulling charged water droplets off. I’ve seen one design proposal for this that suggests condensing the water and using the system for desalination as well.


14 posted on 07/31/2010 9:24:17 AM PDT by OldGuard1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Additional link:

http://www.physorg.com/news192426996.html

I’d like to point out the opposite use of this device, and one that may be just as valuable.

That is, as created, it turns airflow into mechanical energy. Why not use it to turn mechanical energy into airflow?

A conventional, and popular, device that does this right now is the centrifugal fan, as is used in swamp coolers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_fan

But there may also be a future for centrifugal fans in a new class of aircraft, called the FanWing, which is alleged to be more efficient than a helicopter, with greater lift, quieter, and mechanically simpler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanwing

http://www.fanwing.com/

Now here’s the big question: How does the flow rate of a *reversed* bladeless wind turbine compare to that of a bladed centrifugal fan?

If it is as good as, or better than a centrifugal fan, it could very well end up producing powered flight in an aircraft.


15 posted on 07/31/2010 9:25:34 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Bookmark


16 posted on 07/31/2010 9:29:36 AM PDT by Publius6961 ("In 1964 the War on Poverty Began --- Poverty won.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Look at the base and you will find a small fan.


17 posted on 07/31/2010 9:34:59 AM PDT by Taylor42
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Abathar
Wow. A squirrel cage blower in reverse to become a wind turbine. Big deal.


18 posted on 07/31/2010 9:38:04 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory

“How can they tax utilities if you don’t use THEIR utilities.”

Easy, put a tamperproof meter on it and demand payment using the same threats we already have to deal with.

We live in the sticks and we have our own water well. There has been talk about putting meters on such wells and charging us for our own water.

Should this occur, I WILL sneak in a hidden well, and hope that I can afford the penalty if I get caught. They seem to be hell bent to make crooks out of us.


19 posted on 07/31/2010 9:40:54 AM PDT by Gator113 (Beauty will devour the Beast in 2012....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo

Nope, completely different concept. There are no fins like that at all in the unit.


20 posted on 07/31/2010 9:43:18 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Abathar
Tesla patented this almost 100 years ago, interesting concept if I understand it correctly. This could reduce the bird chopping ginsu blades and low frequency thumping of the current turbines we are using. It is probably much safer for all involved also if you have ever seen one of the current style turbines self destruct.

Vertical axis windmills should be looked into more. They go back thousands of years and I doubt they will chop up birds. Much simpler to build. Build them at ground level, don't mess with expensive towers. I would build two or three close to the ground instead of one tower. I would use tough nylon canvas for sails. It could be made very cheap 

And they are good for supplying a houses electricity...some of it at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnJ3apXUNcI

 

Figure 1 A Sketch of an early Persian Vertical Axis Windmill.

21 posted on 07/31/2010 9:43:39 AM PDT by dennisw (2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Marty62; cricket
This product is nothing like the Dyson bladeless fan.

Dyson's fan creates wind, this device catches the wind to generate power.

22 posted on 07/31/2010 9:46:07 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

I have seen sketches of those used for water pumping from a long long time ago. The only problem they have is if you have a Midwest thunderstorm come through without being there to stop it chances are you will be picking it out of your neighbors tree.


23 posted on 07/31/2010 9:48:32 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

It’s a Tesla Turbine. Experimenters have been building them for years. Google “Tesla Turbine” or look it up on YouTube.


24 posted on 07/31/2010 9:52:37 AM PDT by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

The problem with the Persians is that they really ARE engineers.


25 posted on 07/31/2010 9:52:44 AM PDT by patton (Obama has replaced "Res Publica" with "Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo

“Wow. A squirrel cage blower in reverse to become a wind turbine. Big deal.”

No YoYo, it’s not.


26 posted on 07/31/2010 9:53:44 AM PDT by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Bump for later reading


27 posted on 07/31/2010 9:55:23 AM PDT by TMSuchman (John 15;13 & Exodus 21:22-25)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Abathar; patton
I spent 3 minutes doing this screen capture for you. Thanks for at least being interested. You go to the Chinese for a really good vertical axis windmill. I believe we can do this design much better these days. Make them with sails that contract in high winds. Build close to the ground where wind speeds are more moderate

_

_

_


28 posted on 07/31/2010 10:02:06 AM PDT by dennisw (2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

It probably works like an ejector pump. Deep well jet pumps use this principle. A high speed jet of fluid (air, water) will accelerate the fluid around it thereby moving a larger quantity at a lower velocity.

Dyson uses a ring shaped jet to “pull” more air through and around the ring. Neat execution.

If you have access to a garden hose try this experiment. Run enough water on the pavement to make a puddle. Try for 6 feet diameter or larger and at least 1/2” deep. Set the hose nozzle on a high speed jet position, hold it close to horizontal and aim the stream at a point about 1/3 of the distance across the puddle. The stream will hit the puddle and continue, pulling additional puddle water with it and eventually emptying the puddle.

Voila! an ejector pump.


29 posted on 07/31/2010 10:04:47 AM PDT by BwanaNdege ( "Hapana Obama")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Gator113
Well good luck with that (sneaking in another well). In parts of Texas irrigation wells are already metered with plans to meter domestic wells on the drawing board. You won't find a well driller anywhere that will drill an unauthorized well. It's illegal and they'd lose their license. Plus the authorities have GPS reading and aerial views of all property within their jurisdiction.
Big Brother is here.
30 posted on 07/31/2010 10:09:42 AM PDT by Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

Try a net search for their patent.


31 posted on 07/31/2010 10:10:08 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

Fascinating - looks just like the Persian one. Identical.

Who stole what?


32 posted on 07/31/2010 10:12:15 AM PDT by patton (Obama has replaced "Res Publica" with "Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory

Yup. Going Galt, one day at a time.


33 posted on 07/31/2010 10:30:20 AM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Do you have any idea what that would weigh on a plane?


34 posted on 07/31/2010 10:35:20 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: downtownconservative
Neither the picture, the diagrams or the explanation provide meaningful description of how this works. None demonstrate airflow transference to torque or even direction of flow. Can anyone explain this better?

There are parallel disks on a shaft that are spaced a small distance apart. Air is forced into the outer edge of the disks and makes its way out of the center where there are holes to allow the air to escape.

The basic principle is that it uses the boundary layer(friction) to rotate the disks. A typical turbine redirects air to generate torque while this turbine just uses the drag on the disks to generate torque.

There is tons of info about this on the web. Its a favorite project of Tesla junkies.

35 posted on 07/31/2010 10:38:36 AM PDT by Tramonto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: BwanaNdege

I’ve got a birdbath that I clean by directing a stream of water at the inside edge. Amazes me that it spins all the water out within seconds, taking all the leaves and crud with it, resulting in an empty bowl. Similar idea to what you’re saying in your experiment.


36 posted on 07/31/2010 10:41:35 AM PDT by roadcat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: patton

For something really interesting google -— maglev vertical axis

This design has much reduced friction because the wind catching part is magnetically levitated
http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US358&biw=1161&bih=803&q=maglev%20vertical%20axis%20wind%20turbine&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw


37 posted on 07/31/2010 10:47:57 AM PDT by dennisw (2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

You know what I got from this thread?

I am going to get an old squirrel-cage blower, and a chevy alternator, and make a windmill for my cabin.

Hey, it will run a light! LOL!


38 posted on 07/31/2010 10:54:56 AM PDT by patton (Obama has replaced "Res Publica" with "Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Abathar
Blade-less what is it a squirrel cage??
39 posted on 07/31/2010 10:58:08 AM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo

Wow. A squirrel cage blower in reverse to become a wind turbine. Big deal.

Exactly! I posted before seeing your post sorry.


40 posted on 07/31/2010 10:59:19 AM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect


41 posted on 07/31/2010 11:01:21 AM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Texan

That certainly sounds like it would be a challenge.


42 posted on 07/31/2010 11:05:16 AM PDT by Gator113 (Beauty will devour the Beast in 2012....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

This is to no poster in particular but just a note on a common misperception regarding patents.

One can’t generally patent an idea or an effect. One can patent an application of an idea if the idea and the application are described in such a way that there is only one device that would result from that idea (an embodiment). If one describes the idea but not the application and so tries to patent the idea, it usually isn’t recognized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_%28patent%29#Basic_types_and_categories


43 posted on 07/31/2010 11:09:11 AM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texan

BTW... I wouldn’t even try to get a well driller involved.

I have what I “think” might be a spring. It’s not near my well.

Using a backhoe I have on my tractor, I have dug down about 6” from what was always a wet spot in a field. I would have gone deeper, but it turns to solid rock, large and thick shale rock.

I have dropped a sump pump into the water filled hole and every time the pump takes the level down, about 40 minutes later, the hole is full of water again. This occurs even during the driest part of the year. The water is clear, smells good and it’s very cold.

I don’t know anything about this stuff, but I think I might have a spring and if I do... there is my extra water source. ;>) At the very least, it seems that I should be able to bury a storage tank in nearby soft ground and use the source to keep it filled for gardening water.


44 posted on 07/31/2010 11:34:11 AM PDT by Gator113 (Beauty will devour the Beast in 2012....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer

Well, a centrifugal fan, like any other motive device, would have a weight to power ratio. Its blades would be considerably smaller and lighter than a prop or rotor, because the the distribution of force across them.

Plus, they could use easily machined titanium alloy instead of much heavier and more expensive materials. And the length of fan blades per section would only be limited by the structural strength of the blades over the given circumference of their barrel, and the strength of the barrel.

Its biggest gain would be by having a much simpler engine and likely computer control and stabilization. Other than that, just a joystick control.

I’m less a fan of the fanwing design prototype, because it is too reliant on prop aircraft design, where it doesn’t really need such a design.


45 posted on 07/31/2010 11:43:08 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Sure a bird pinned to the screen as the jet rises to 40,000 will not be harmed.


46 posted on 07/31/2010 12:07:00 PM PDT by JLS (Democrats: People who won't even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Sure a bird pinned to the screen as the jet rises to 40,000 will not be harmed.


47 posted on 07/31/2010 12:07:08 PM PDT by JLS (Democrats: People who won't even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
How can they tax utilities if you don’t use THEIR utilities.

Also, the electric companies would be decreasing their own business. So they probably won't allow the things to be sold, but leased and metered.

48 posted on 07/31/2010 1:29:46 PM PDT by JimRed (To water the Tree of Liberty is to excise a cancer before it kills us. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
How can they tax utilities if you don’t use THEIR utilities.

In many places it is illegal to capture rain water that lands on your property. They will probably tax you on the capacity of your wind generator"

49 posted on 07/31/2010 2:22:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Socialism is the philosophy of failure, - W Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: James C. Bennett
Sell them at Brookstone and Bed/Bath&Beyond (and probably any number of 'et als' - so to speak).

Not a big one; just 'table sized' model, that I stood in front of - and enjoyed breeze - then, of course, had to put my hand through center just to make sure/sigh. . .

Reminded me of some 'great leap' from the past. (And given, Telsa's determinations; it is, really. . .

Loved the 'purity' so to speak; of this great design/MO. . .while wondering 'how it is' we never had this!

50 posted on 07/31/2010 7:39:50 PM PDT by cricket ( flies don't lie. . .message sent to the man who would be King.. . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson