The Second American Tax Revolt (Time to take a second look)

Mike Reagan.com ^ | January 29, 2010 | Mike Reagan

[Tigen]

We are speeding toward an economic cliff because our government can’t practice restraint.

We spend so much more than we take in because politicians at every level use the public treasury to win elections. The public mostly accepts lavish promises of more and more federal spending because the cost of government has been so effectively divorced from what actually comes out of our paychecks.

Ask almost anyone how they did on their taxes and you’re likely to hear a happy exclamation that the taxpayer got a little money back! But ask the same person how much they paid the government over the year in withheld income and payroll taxes and you’ll often see a blank look.

When the money that government spends seems so unconnected to the money we earn it is easy for many to see government expenditures as “free money.” It’s not, but the engineered divorce in perception between the fruits of our labors and spending by elected officials has resulted in a national debt that equals more than $500,000 per American household. If not for accounting sleights-of-hand the national debt would be seen as much higher than even the shocking figure of more than $12 trillion.

[screaminsunshine]

I am all in. I am tired of paying for lazy bums and stupid socialist programs.

[Man50D]

In conducting research on the FairTax, I have become convinced of two things: the FairTax is the best way to create a new era of healthy American economic growth, and that my father would have been a strong proponent of the FairTax as a tax reform/replacement model had it existed during his time in government.

The Fair Tax Act(HR25/S296) will remove the power the federal government has over the people by restoring their hard earned money to their paychecks that is currently taken from them before they see a paycheck and gives them the decision as to when and how often they are taxed. Fair Tax ping!

[Scotsman will be Free]

“Instead of exemptions that can manipulated by Congress, the FairTax issues a monthly “prebate” check that covers the taxes we will pay on the necessities of life and which wipes out all federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.”
You just gave congress their leverage for manipulation and corruption.

[jessduntno]

This so-called “Fair Tax” is a progressive tax.

The only fair tax is a flat tax.

Force the Government to set a budget, adjust taxes to meet the budget, everyone pays the same percentage, no taxation without representation...and no representation without taxation. I will never vote for a tax that allows someone to drive down a street I pay for but they do not. Tax everyone fairly...with an equal percentage, regardless of race creed color religion or income. End subsidies and exemptions. You believe that we are all in this together and share equally in the burden or you aren’t interested in “fairness” at all. At least be honest about it and give it another name. Call it the “I can live cheaply and take advantage of all the stuff you guys pay for” tax.

[Scotsman will be Free]

I’m a flat tax advocate as well, though I may be persuaded by logic and math to another way. As soon as they start talking crap about “prebates”, etc, they’ve lost me. It’s just more of the same garbage dressed up in a different bag.

[greeneyes]

I have decided to return to basics. NO INCOME TAXES of any kind period. Should repeal that amendment. Sales or consumption tax on everything except food and medicine, also allowed is fees, and excise taxes. Starve the beast (government).

[MtnMan101]

[Taxman]

Mike is right! President Reagan would have been a FairTax supporter.

Too bad the National Retail Sales Tax movement did not begin until President Reagan was out of office.

[Man50D]

The only fair tax is a flat tax.

The Fair Tax is a flat tax but on consumption instead of productivity. We've already tried a flat income tax and it's been a complete failure. It's our current income tax code. People were taxed 1% on the first $20,000 of income and 7% on any income over $500,000 when the 16th Amendment was passed in 1913. Less than 1% of the population earned in excess of $500,000 making it a flat income tax of 1%. As we have seen over the last 97 years, it has evolved into the multi tiered, increasingly intrusive and convoluted mess we have today. Another flat income tax will morph into the same only faster thanks to the thousands of lobbyists today that didn't exist in 1913.

There is a reason why Karl Marx included as one of the planks in his Communist Manifesto the type of heavy progressive tax on income we have experienced for the last 97 years. He understood the more productivity is taxed, the less likely people will want to produce and then will become dependent on the government for their existence. That can end by replacing the income tax with a consumption based tax.

[Mikey]

The IRS has been used (by some) to strike terror into their political opponents, thus changing the course of government.

Thus, the IRS is by definition a terrorist organization. A government sponsored terrorist organization.

What folly is it for this government to lay claim to fighting terrorism when it is sponsoring the largest terrorist organization the world has ever seen.

[Taxman]

1. The FairTax is fair. It treats all consumers exactly the same at the checkout counter.

2. The flat tax is still an income tax, and contains all the evil provisions of the current income tax. And, how long do you think it will remain flat?

3. If your argument against the FairTax is that it is progressive, then you will have to argue against the Flat Tax also. It is progressive, as well.

4. Your closing paragraph is a pretty good argument for the FairTax, except for your mostly confusing final sentence.

5. Read the FairTax legislation and get back to us.

[mojitojoe]

There is already a “silent” tax revolt going on. I’m sure BO and his thugs are aware of it. It won’t be too much longer before people move outside their comfort zone and openly revolt. It will bring this corrupt, runaway government to it’s knees instantly, without a shot being fired.

[RayChuang88]

The biggest mistake of the British government--and they even admitted by the the time of the formation of modern Canadian nation in 1867--was the stupidity of King George III and his closest advisors in Parliament thinking they could impose taxes on the American colonies without the consent of the colonists and get away with it. The result was innumerable protests that eventually led to the American Revolution, and if Parliament or King George III bothered to listen to the elder William Pitt (the first Earl of Chatham), it could have literally changed the history of the entire world.

Today, the totally clueless Obama Administration and Congress are coming THIS close to acting like King George III and his lackeys in Parliament between 1763 and 1776. We could be seeing a major voter revolt that could see some of the biggest changes in Congress since 1994--possibly more so!

And perhaps the issue that could define this election is nothing less than income tax reform. You know my public stance on my I detest the income tax--code too malleable so we could favor or punish as little as ONE person, complexity that results in US$500 BILLION per year in compliance costs, drove US$15 TRILLION in American owned liquid assets out of the US financial system for income tax avoidance purposes, drove many millions of jobs out of the USA for income tax avoidance purposes, and discourages personal saving and investments. We need to seriously consider repealing the 16th Amendment and just starting all over again with FairTax, if only to correct the issues I just mentioned.

[jessduntno]

3. If your argument against the FairTax is that it is progressive, then you will have to argue against the Flat Tax also. It is progressive, as well.

I reject your premise. Your ten percent is the same as my ten percent. I got back to you. Show me how ten percent of something is more or less than ten percent of something. This is a very lame argument. Pie chart would be acceptable.

[jessduntno]

“We’ve already tried a flat income tax and it’s been a complete failure.”

Absolutely false.

[jessduntno]

1. The FairTax is fair. It treats all consumers exactly the same at the checkout counter.

OK. That covers consumers of goods. What about non-consumers who will benefit from the infrastructure and defense expenditures that everyone else has paid for. Free Ride? How is that fair?

2. The flat tax is still an income tax, and contains all the evil provisions of the current income tax. And, how long do you think it will remain flat?

It contains none of the progressive tax structures and it will stay that way for as long as we have enough courage to make it stay that way. Why? Does the “Fair Tax” come with a guarantee?

3. If your argument against the FairTax is that it is progressive, then you will have to argue against the Flat Tax also. It is progressive, as well.

My argument is that it is ridiculously progressive and not fair at all. This misnomer is as lame as “planned parenthood” is.

4. Your closing paragraph is a pretty good argument for the FairTax, except for your mostly confusing final sentence.

I don’t know why it is confusing. It pretty much says what I think about the idea of taxing consumers and not everyone.

5. Read the FairTax legislation and get back to us.

Well, I could read Mein Kampf, too, but really don’t need to. I know quackery when I see it. A consumer-based income tax would be the most insane fraud riddled and unfair system of taxes anyone could imagine. Talk about soak the rich and disincentives...man, this has it all!

I got back to you.

[esarlls3]

1. "What about non-consumers?"

Who is a non-consumer?

2. "it will stay that way for as long as we have enough courage to make it stay that way."

That is true of anything in Congress. Witness the huge expansion of Government far beyond the scope allowed in the Constitution.

3. [The FairTax] "is ridiculously progressive and not fair at all."

Care to expound on what you feel is "ridiculously progressive" and why it's "not fair"?

From your earlier post:

"Force the Government to set a budget, adjust taxes to meet the budget"

That's a Balanced Budget Amendment. I'm all for limiting the amount of debt Congress can take on without specific approval by the People. We have recently seen that we can't "starve the beast" if the beast can borrow or print unlimited funds with no consequence.

"I will never vote for a tax that allows someone to drive down a street I pay for but they do not."

I'm guessing this is another reference to your notion of non-consumers and not a call for converting everything to toll roads :).

"Tax everyone fairly...with an equal percentage, regardless of race creed color religion or income. End subsidies and exemptions. You believe that we are all in this together and share equally in the burden "

Sounds like the FairTax to me. Everyone pays an equal marginal rate, without regard to income, legal residence, or any other arbitrary standard. Subsidies and exemptions are eliminated. It's a tax on all consumption of new goods and services.

Have a look at this Thumbnail Sketch of the FairTax. You can also try the FairTax Calculator and test the FairTax with different family scenarios.

[jessduntno]

“It’s a tax on all consumption of new goods and services.”

THEREFORE...some will pay more than others. Why? I thought it was a FAIR tax?

[jessduntno]

I reject your premise. Your ten percent is the same as my ten percent. I got back to you. Show me how ten percent of something is more or less than ten percent of something. This is a very lame argument. Pie chart would be acceptable. No answers on this. Why not?