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To: Gaffer
We should just start installing secret detonation devices in all of the explosives (shells, missiles, etc.) that we leave behind to detonate at a date to be determined.

heh, well as interesting as that sounds, we don't roll like that. Everyone (not military) thinks that because we put rules on ourselves on how we fight it puts us at a disadvantage, the reality is just the opposite. It is precisely because we fight with rules that we're better than them and the general populace know. We don't go around targeting civilians, we don't plant landmines for little kids hearding sheep to walk over, they know this and think it gives them advantage but it doesn't. When we take prisoners we don't brutalize them (waterboarding and stress positions aren't really torture, they're extremely unpleasent but you're not going to die from them) like they do with our guys.

We follow the rule of law, and its known. Everytime the Taliban kill an Afghani it has negative blowback on them, they get less cooperation and we get more. That huge assault on Kabul last week they mounted? That was an act of desperation, they're losing and they know it, but taken in the context of the way the press presented it, it is like we're losing.

With our ROE now, if you are taking fire from a mosque or hospital, you can return fire. If armed gunmen are using human shields, you can return fire (you'll be more careful and use more aimed shots than otherwise might be used, but you can return fire). The Laws of War are a good thing and we should stick with them, it gives us discipline and makes us better soldiers, the fact they don't adhere to them actually weakens them.

I've seen it quoted that those who adhere to rules overmuch when making war are doomed to lose, that quote seems to condemn the rules of war, but really it is condemning the rigid thinking of commanders. Our commanders are good at thinking outside the box and using the rules to reinforce rather than hinder our operations. What we're lacking is the support on the political side that is so crucial to military operations. The military is a servant of the government, we project national power where we are directed to (this is the right thinking with regards to the military), but the government has a duty to use us wisely, give us clear objectives and support us in achieving those objectives. We haven't gotten that in quite some time, by both parties.

Pulling out of Afghanistan after so much sacrifice in blood (after so many of my brothers and sisters in uniform have died!) without accomplishing our objectives is an unforgivable sin. Its not that Zero should get out of the way and let us do our job, thats not right at all. Its that he should get out front and LEAD. This whole Surge and Leave plan that he has is rediculous if it doesn't include going for the throat of our enemy (he's going to put those troops in the cities and FOB's and attempt to provide "security" so we already know he doesn't want an offensive, which was what McChrystal wanted the troops for).

Showing my geekiness a little bit, but I feel like I'm in the movie Dune where the Fremen have forced the Harkonens back into their bases while they go where they will and do what they want (don't take the metaphor too far though, we're definetly not the Harkonens ;) We need to get back into this fight in a big way.

Wow, got a lot off my chest there (I didn't mean to rant). In short following the Rules of War doesn't diminish us, it gives us strength and credibility, something our enemies really lack.

15 posted on 01/24/2010 8:08:38 AM PST by world weary
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To: world weary

Hearts and Minds is crap...

Insider Information is crap..

Afganistan is a Tribal Region not a Country in any modern sense..

The only “Unconventional Warfare” you can successfully engage in is to Marry into the various Factions, Tribes and Clans Leadership. Back our Lts and Capts with small beau Geste Style Forts capable of a spirited Defense if required.. Now set the tribes and clans at each other.. Those that align with US their Lts and Captains lead Raids and the Conquest of those who oppose us. Bind the connections with Children.. Make them Part of the American Clan.. those that join live those that don’t we hunt down and Kill the men Assimilate the Women and Children into our Clans..

Everyone will understand such a policy and everyone will get it.. As it is the Afganis know we are a big bunch of morons.. They know we will leave soon and are no more going to align with the US than the Man in the moon..

So everthing they tell you and say right now is for show and to keep US Forces Mollified until we like everyone else leave (except Alexander whose decendents still remain in some Afganistan regions).

They know with certainty the Taliban will return to power and we will leave.. Cooperation with US? Self Delusion.

We have lost Strategically in Iraq to the Iranians.. We will lose in Afganistan to the Taliban not because our troops are outfought but because in both cases our Generals are OutThought by the enemy.

W


17 posted on 01/24/2010 11:13:32 AM PST by WLR (Remember 911 Remember 91 Iran delinda est.)
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