Posted on 12/31/2009 4:37:24 PM PST by TheConservativeCitizen
The Bible already makes it clear that good works achieves nothing in the way of salvation. That message is so clear that it’s not possible to subvert it.
After one is saved, though (which has nothing to do with good works), there are higher and lower positions in the world-wide government that Jesus is setting up (at that time), on the basis of the good works that one has done, “in Christ” and not on the basis of oneself. The Bible makes it clear that anything that was not done in Christ, through His spirit in you, is worthless and is “burned up” and not counted for anything. Some will be saved — but have absolutely nothing in the way of any rewards in the coming Kingdom on this earth, that Jesus is setting up.
And so, when He returns and sets His feet on this earth, He gathers all the nations for judgment, and those who are saved are found to have treated Jesus’ brethren (the Jews) rightly and they are the Sheep of this judgement. The ones who are not saved are the Goats of this judgment, and they will have treated Jesus’ brethren, the Jews (during that Tribulation period, i.e., the previous 7 years before Jesus came back) as badly as Jesus describes to them.
Thus, right at the very beginning of the world-wide Kingdom that Jesus sets up here on earth, He starts off — right off the bat — with eliminating all the non-Christians immediately (i.e., they are killed right then), and the remaining saved ones, coming out of the Great Tribulation — go into the Kingdom that Jesus came to rule and reign over, for the next 1,000 years until the Great White Throne Judgement in Revelation 20.
Not analogous. Free Republic is a forum. The MD borders on being a statement of faith.
No, me.
I think the Declaration of Independence is in some ways comparable to the Manhattan Declaration: something written for secular purpose, but in the context of Faith, uniting many men --- different though their churches may be --- to face a present crisis.
One important point of comparison is that the principles we are talking about in both documents, are principles that can be defended by Natural Law.
It is a category mistake to critiquing the Manhattan Declaration as if it were a church document. It is not a church document. It is a statement made by people from widely different Christian churches about aspects of the present cultural/political crisis.
I greatly admire Albert Mohler, for example, an eminent Baptist, for signing the statement, but I don't expect him to vary one iota from his opposition to some aspects of my Catholic church, creed and theology.
That's why the Manhattan Declaration couldn't be, in a comprehensive sense, a creedal statement. It is a statement about the clear and present danger with regard to the killing of unborn babies, the legal mainstreaming of sexual perversion, and our obligation in conscience to defend what is right and just.
Politics is a lesser thing than the great theological virtues of Faith, Hope, and Love. But it can be in harmony with Faith, Hope, and Love. Public justice is subordinate to, but in harmony with, the very love of Christ our Lord. The Manhattan Dec, like the Declaration of Independence, like Free Republic, should help us work together. That's what I'd like to see more of in the coming year.
A happy New Year to you, guy! And may you flourish and be blessed by Him who made you for Himself.
John MacArthur is one of finest, most influential preachers in America, perhaps in the world...influencing 1000’s of people in the 40+ years he has been the pastor of Grace Community Church.
None. How many have YOU converted?
None that I know of. However, I support people who are better at that job than I could ever be.
I heartily agree about the quality of John MacArthur’s preaching. However, I suspect he preaches mostly to the converted and accomplishes little in the way of converting the unsaved.
The Catholic Church has added all kinds of junk to the gospel, but do you really think there are not many Catholics who acknowledge Jesus as Son of God and Savior? Do they not believe in "Christ, and Him crucified," as Paul did?
I can't seen to get you to answer my questions about whether there is nothing in the RCC which is held in common with Protestants, or why someone like MacArthur thinks differences in doctrine are more important that making common cause against demonic people.
and your source for this comment is...?
Basically just a gut feeling. Check out post #66. Even if MacArthur only refines and reinforces the converted, that is of value. But I know that people who reach the unsaved are more subtle. Someone posted recently about a successful method used by people evangelizing Muslims. It starts with what the Koran says about Jesus, and works from there. I.e. it meets people where they are. Jesus seldom went to people who were sincerely seeking and told them they were going to hell; he was more subtle, because God is not desirous that anyone be condemned.
I tend to avoid assessing the fruit [or lack there of] of a person’s ministry based on “gut feelings” - I am sure God is not honored when you belittle the ministry of one of God’s preachers based on your “gut”.
My point was that your original question was erroneous to begin with, FRiend.
Where did I belittle the ministry of John MacArthur? I’ve listened to him for hours and find him to be right on target most of the time. However, I doubt he has had much effect in converting the unsaved. Can you prove otherwise?
Isn’t it a valid question? If you disagree, then you should certainly be prepared to prove that John MacArthur has been a major force in winning converts to Christ. Can you prove that? And specifically, how does his stance on the Manhattan Declaration strengthen or weaken the position of the church?
Can you prove your “doubt”? The ministry of the pastor/teacher [John MacArthur] is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. Based on attendance in his church while I was in seminary, and the many friends I have that are still there, I would suggest there are 1000s who have come to Christ, either as a direct result of his preaching, whether in the church building, or by radio/CD/books; or through the ministry of the 1000s that have been equipped by his faithful teaching of the Word.
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