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1 posted on 12/21/2009 5:38:16 PM PST by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman
DEATH PANELS
59 posted on 12/21/2009 6:24:41 PM PST by onedoug
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To: bruinbirdman
Sarah didn't say the bill listed it as "Death Panels", but the logical interpretation of the intent is the same.

Is one of the Alinsky rules, "If it is the truth and it bites you in the ass, call it a lie."?
60 posted on 12/21/2009 6:25:02 PM PST by FrankR (obama was not an election, it was an INVASION of the United States.)
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To: bruinbirdman
If it was a lie, then what was removed from the Senate version of this farce shortly after Mrs. Palin raised the issue?

Not a lie, and inconvenient truth for the socialists.

63 posted on 12/21/2009 6:26:46 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (obama out now! I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom - you can keep the change.)
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To: bruinbirdman
And between that statement about “death panels” that was supposedly “misleading” and now...

A death panel ruled that women shouldn't get breast cancer exams until 50, as a cost saving (but life costing) measure.

“death panels” is the meme. It is accurate, succinct, and the coining of such phrases is part and parcel of Sarah Palin’s amazing political acumen.

It is not a lie when “death panels” made a chart and decided a premature baby below a certain age and weight would not get incubator space and potentially life saving procedures.

Death panels. Learn it, live it, fear it. It is real.

64 posted on 12/21/2009 6:27:18 PM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: bruinbirdman

Some bureaucrat or collection of same will be rationing health care. It’s highly unlikely that either will be willing to spend much on the permanently infirm of mind or body (unless there’s a politician in the family). They can call it whatever they like, but the result will be what one expects from a “death panel”, especially when taxpayers are forced to pay doctors to counsel patients about how they want to kick the bucket. Who here doesn’t think that the bureaucracy won’t pressure doctors in how they counsel?


66 posted on 12/21/2009 6:28:57 PM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: bruinbirdman

IT IS IN THE BILL!!


68 posted on 12/21/2009 6:34:13 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: bruinbirdman

The, “panel of experts” can jointly and severally take a flying leap.


69 posted on 12/21/2009 6:36:36 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: bruinbirdman

She’s 100% right!

Seniors, including me, prepare to die!


71 posted on 12/21/2009 6:41:15 PM PST by dalereed
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To: bruinbirdman

She was right and she still is.


72 posted on 12/21/2009 6:42:38 PM PST by Williams (It's the policies, stupid)
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To: bruinbirdman; bigbob; volunbeer; bareford101; FormerACLUmember

Well, here I go again. I will send my Op-ed to those folks and it will not be published.

The contention of Congress, Barack Obama, and others that legislation does not mandate end of life discussions might be literally be truthful, but lacks credibility. Sarah Palin points out that fraud.

Health care reform means government intervention to control health care, and not only through legislation, but by application of Congressional intent. As with any other commodity or service the two control methods are price or technical allocation methodologies. Governments specialize in the latter.

The stimulus bill created the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology and the Health Information Technology Research Centers. These bureaucracies duplicate private sector information bases, utilizing computer technology for coordination and flow of recommendations and policies for medical knowledge. Now passage of HR 3962, and passage of Senate legislation, adds over 100 new boards, commissions and programs. These bureaucracies provide the framework for boundless regulatory masterpieces constraining human freedom. The HHS Secretary will use the bureaucracies to implement Congressional intent.

Regulations developed reflect the momentum of congressional intent; not the will of the people. The regulations would utilize disquieting legislative provisions, selected legislator speeches, and selected expert testimony to incorporate ideas politicians consider too sensitive for public debate. Medical professionals would join other private sector professionals such as education financial aid directors and CPA’s I know, who often serve as federal agents instead of client advocates.

Princeton bioethics professor Peter Singer recently presented in the New York Times Congressional intent without equivocation. “Rationing health care means getting value for the billions spent by setting limits on which treatments should be paid for from the public purse….There’s no doubt that it’s tough – politically, emotionally, and ethically - to make a decision that means that someone will die sooner than they would have if the decision had gone the other way….If the U.S. system spent less on expensive treatments for those who, with or without drugs, have at most a few months to live, it would be better able to save lives of more people who, if they get the treatment they need, might live for several decades….The task of health care bureaucrats is then to get the best value for resources they have been allocated….If a teenager can be expected to live another 70 years, saving that life gains 70 years, whereas a person of 85 can be expected to live another 5 years, then saving the 85-year-old will gain of only 5 life-years. That suggests saving one teenager is equivalent to saving 14 85-year-olds”.

Peter Singer’s rational, scientific approach reminds me of the Geneva Conventions, which attempt rational, moral threads to grasp during the barbarity of war. For my experience pulverizing a major enemy base camp in Vietnam, I especially like the clear and obvious reading of Articles 28 and 29 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The VC were responsible for any civilian deaths on that base. Those civilians qualified as Protected Persons within the enemy’s physical control, and could not be used to render certain points and areas immune from military operations.

The passages formed the basis for rules of engagement we followed when attacking a legitimate military target. I was also blessed by not having to clean up after-wards for the mess I helped make. Our task force was certainly an effective “death panel”. We permanently shattered that VC main force unit, forcing it to surrender control of the region.

Physicians currently discuss end of life issues when explaining proposed procedures and drugs, so new legislation only confiscates privacy and freedom. The result of regulations would be to place everyone on pathways to federally defined, cost effective, approved treatments. Seniors and the disabled would reside in second class citizenship. Popular philosophies as discussed above allocating scarce health resources find these people deficient in societal contributions compared to active workers and youth.

Worthwhile initiatives would locate dialogue and diagnosis with families, nurses, and doctors; not with lawyers, insurance companies, academics, and bureaucrats. Worthwhile initiatives would also free the private sector from government constraints preventing greater supply at lower cost. However, such suggestions are not contemplated or appreciated.


75 posted on 12/21/2009 6:47:08 PM PST by Retain Mike
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To: bruinbirdman

“the most misleading statement of 2009.”

I nominate Barry Zreo for his countless lies that he has spewn forth this year. No competition. The Halfrican wins hands down.


77 posted on 12/21/2009 6:50:27 PM PST by caver (Obama's first goals: allow more killing of innocents and allow the killers of innocents to go free.)
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To: bruinbirdman

It never ceases to amaze me the stupidity of liberals, both American, British, and European. These guys whole argument against Palin is some website that says there is no wording in the health bill that says “Death Panels”. Well...Duhhh, of course there’s nothing in there that literally says “Death Panels”. She was talking about the provisions in the bill that says ‘health professionals’ will have the ability to ‘ration’ health care for the elderly (ie. the ability to deny coverage or care to those who are in late stages of life, thus raising the possibility that they may ‘die’ sooner, ie “Death Panels”).


79 posted on 12/21/2009 6:57:33 PM PST by LoneStarGI (Vegetarian: Old Indian word for "BAD HUNTER.")
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To: bruinbirdman
"A panel of experts...

ROFL!


80 posted on 12/21/2009 7:04:35 PM PST by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: bruinbirdman
Paul Thompson just told the 'biggest lie of the year'!
85 posted on 12/21/2009 7:26:37 PM PST by kcvl
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To: bruinbirdman

Paul Thompson so called 9/11 researcher, America hater, Bush basher and Jersey Girls supporter

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2147695828990077136#


86 posted on 12/21/2009 7:32:24 PM PST by kcvl
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To: bruinbirdman

So you know, the elites can get a world government based on the huge lie of Global Warming, but the MSM IS worried about Sarah Palin talking about “Death Panels”.


90 posted on 12/22/2009 2:31:54 AM PST by RatsDawg
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