Posted on 11/08/2009 5:00:51 PM PST by Freedom2specul8
Things were not always that way Bad Jack. In the USMC right up until the M-16 was a Standard Issue we always had access to our rifles. Some of us even had ready access to our Issue M3 Grease Guns which were mounted on the uprights of our racks.
It was about the time of good old Patricia Hearst and her gang of cut throats that the issue of the Marines having ready access to their arms became a concern. Some of her gang members came aborad USMC Base Camp Pendleton and made off with a slew of the Grease guns which caused the Comandant to tighten up the access to the guns.
If you had brought your pistol to my armory, we would have given it back to you in Match Condition.
Semper Fi
An Old Man
Thank you so much for your informative reply. I apologize for my ignorance, but please see post #17, after a few days to think about it, it’s beyond heartbreaking for us outsiders. We don’t know nuthin. Yes, I’ve had 2 close members of my family serve during vietnam, another family member service more recently, and a few friends. But this topic was never brought up. I love our military..and because of 9/11, and now hasan...my feelings about our country’s safety has changed. I never dreamed in a million years our pentagon would be hit....the way it was. it changed EVERYTHING.
A lot of things can go down on an army post that would lend one to believe that soldiers carrying arms constantly might not be a good idea.
But OTOH, maybe things have to change.Obviously there needs to be more armed presence inside of our army posts.
This incident proves it.
It’s also death by PC...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting
Fort Hood shooting
Neither military-issued nor personal weapons may be carried about the base by typical soldiers. Lt. General Robert W. Cone, commander of the III Corps and Fort Hood, stated the on-base firearm policy: "As a matter of practice, we do not carry weapons on Fort Hood. This is our home." [81] Military weapons are only used for training or by base security, and personal weapons must be kept locked away by the provost marshal. [82] Specialist Jerry Richard, a soldier working at the Readiness Center, expressed the opinion that this policy had left them unnecessarily vulnerable to violent assaults: "Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can't even defend yourself." [44]
If an officer had said “NIGGER” 30 or 40 times - or maybe just twice - he would have been drummed out. But a MUSLIM? They can say anything and get a pass? The Army’s a joke.
Do the math, we have around 2.5 million uniformed military out there. What is wear and tear combined with theft cost on that many weapons carried, banged around and lost with 2.5 million human error candidates out there?
Better MP coverage is a good answer. armed to the teeth in the secretarial pool and infirmary is retarded.
My friend said that if the victims had all been black, obama would have been at fort hood the day it happened.
There is really no need for the entire base to be armed 24/7, IMO that would cause more problems than it would solve.
Having said that, no matter what level of protection is afforded, there will be times when nutcases will kill innocent people and there is nothing anyone can do about it. We have had incidents in the middle of war zones, where nutcases have killed people and everyone was armed at the time.
so what will they do about that now.. that's what I want to know. I understand kids and drinking and have to control that part of the environment. I really do. But what about MP's guarding more than gates? My cousin was an MP...why can't they have them move freely on the base?
Okay, that makes sense too. Just trying to understand, and comprehend what changes if any can be made.
There is one wicked PC double standard going on...
” I was never stationed on a post where I had access or needed access to my weapon.”
Well, it seems times they are a changin’.
Your tagline, excellent.
We've always known it - and liberals will NEVER know it...
Have you ever lived on a military installation?
If you haven't then you wouldn't really understand the reason why everyone is not allowed to pack heat.
It took 3+ minutes for police to respond to the massacre. During that time, 40+ unarmed victims were shot.
How many of the soldiers in that killing zone had concealed carry permits, and would have been able to shoot back-—off base?
Why can an NCO be trusted with a machine gun in Iraq, but not a legal CCW pistol on base in Texas?
The real underlying issue where the military oscillates back and forth is arming guards. The security "issues" on a base are generally dealing with drunks, the odd protestor, and curious members of the public. A typical military base has a real security threat about once a decade. The rate of death/accident from mishandling firearms is a couple per year when guards are armed. It is an easy calculation. - I was a former weapons officer with responsibility for guarding nuclear weapons on a submarine.
And how is that any different than "out in town," where there are drunks, muggers, the odd protester, car jacker etc etc. The military could very easily allow concealed/open carry of personnel firearms to SNCOs (or at least personnel and dependants/retirees over 21) with a CCW and valid military ID. All other non-military ID holders/non-LEOs would be restricted from carrying weapons on base. Would this prevent non-LEO/non-mil ID holders from carrying? No. But it would serve as a deterance and allow for punishment of unauthorized carry. It would also allow military members and dependants the same security on base as off.
Please tell me you weren't a Marine because this " very very scary" statement is making me sick to my stomach. Most of the Marines I know have 2-3+ deployments to Iraq. And know this isn't some rear echelon or the bottom of the ocean, but no kidding on patrol in the streets of Al Anbar Province.
Firearms and the ability to protect one's self may seem scary to you but for real men (read "grunts") its a way of life.
Furthermore, it is ridiculous that I have a CCW and can carry out in town; however, to come on base I have to remove my magazine from my weapon. Remove the rounds from the magazine and lock my pistol seperate from my amuniton (even though I can buy both at the PX). And then have to re-load everything so I can carry when withdrawing/depositing money at the credit union in town or picking up a gallon of milk in the store. Oh yeah, and this is on a base that allows civilians without DoD decals.... so who knows what they are bringing on base. But, God help me if I get caught with a loaded weapon in my vehicle.
An armed soldier (over 21 because thats the civilian handgun law; preferably a SNCO) could have instantly stopped Hasan the moment he yelled "Allah Akbar" and squeezed off around. But instead 13 people are dead and 30+ are injured..... because guns are "very very scary."
If we continue to allow our bases to be soft targets they will continue to be hit. And you can't tell me two bored Pfcs at the gate casually scanning IDs makes a "hard target." Our enemies are determined. Military bases are an enticing target. My felow Marines and I selflessly put our lives on the line to defend 300+ million Americans grateful or not, but can't defend ourselves on base.... and the hassle of bringing a weapon on base means it is less likely we will be armed on our way to/from work.
***The notion of 1000s of 18 years olds running around armed, sober, drunk, chasing women, coming back after striking out, and all of that is very very scary.***
LOL! One time our barracks won some prize for efficiency at our air base. As a result the entire barracks was invited to the NCO club for all we could drink! After a couple of beers several of us went into town as we DID NOT want to be at the barracks that evening.
When we returned (sober) that night we found that the CQ had to call out the riot squad and the APES (Air Police), as we called them, completely surrounded the barracks because there were so many drunk and disorderly soldiers there.
We missed it!
Straw man argument. Nobody is arguing that every drunk 18 year old be packing heat 24/7.
But what about sober 21 year old NCOs and up, who have Texas CCW permits?
Would the situation in Fort Hood have been better, or worse, if the killer had not been unopposed for 3+ minutes in a killing pen?
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