AP Sources: Rampage gun purchased legally

The Associated Press (hosted on Google) ^ | November 7, 2009 | Lara Jakes and Devlin Barrett

[myknowledge]

WASHINGTON — A 5.7-millimeter pistol used in the Fort Hood shooting was purchased legally by suspect Nidal Hasan at a Texas gun shop, law enforcement officials said Friday.

Army Col. John Rossi, deputy commander at Fort Hood, confirmed at a news conference late Friday in Texas that the two weapons carried by Hasan were not military arms, but "privately owned weapons ... purchased locally."

He said more than 100 rounds were fired during the attack.

Records indicate Hasan bought the FN 5.7 at store called "Guns Galore" in Killeen, Texas, in recent months and that gun was used in the attack that left 13 people dead, one of the officials said. The pistol has been dubbed a "cop killer" by those who have tried to stop its use.

The law enforcement officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

[myknowledge]

Major Nidal Malik Hasan was armed with a FN Five-Seven, which is a cop-killing 5.7 x 28mm pistol because its pistol cartridge can pierce body armor.

FN Five-Seven.

[Spktyr]

He would need military ammo to pierce body armor with that gun, and he couldn’t possibly get access to that.... oh wait.

[randomhero97]

It didn’t take long for the vultures to start circling.

[Darkwolf377]

With this angle maybe the Democrats will finally pay attention to this story and call for handgun bans. Oh, wait, President Obama isn’t for that. (giggle) So we’re safe.

[blackbart.223]

"It didn’t take long for the vultures to start circling."

It never does.

[Chet 99]

Fortunately, there’s pretty stringent gun control at our nation’s airports, so we don’t have to worry about Muslim attacks on our airplanes...

Oh wait...

[blackbart.223]

"With this angle maybe the Democrats will finally pay attention to this story and call for handgun bans. Oh, wait, President Obama isn’t for that."

And Santa Claus is going to pop down my chimnney this winter. That is if they let me keep my fireplace.

[OldDeckHand]

He was smart enough to pick a powerful weapon, the .357, that he could use in his dominate hand, and a smaller caliber gun with almost zero recoil but still very deadly, in his weaker hand. He thought this through and depending on when he bought the FN, he may have been thinking about it a while.

And, the AP ammo is virtually impossible to come by. There's no indication that he used anything other than the standard NATO round, in his attack.

[fish hawk]

I’m not familiar with this gun at all. Do you know how many bullets the clip holds. If he fired 100 rounds he must have had several clips with him all preloaded.

[Darkwolf377]

Yes, and Obama wants to hear from "all voices" and he's going to seek common ground on healthcare, and blah blah blah...

Geez, I am in a crappy mood tonight! I haven't posted this much in months.

[fish hawk]

I just looked this gun up and the clip holds 20 rounds. That means he would have used 5 clips. I they can’t find all the clips they better start looking for a second shooter.

[Vendome]

and if I pull your left leg, does it play “Jingle Bells”?

[smokingfrog]

It comes with three 20 round magazines. Small caliber. High velocity. The military ammo is not available to civilians.

[rmlew]

He's an army officer. Why wouldn't he have been able to purchase almost any weapon?
And what gun store owner would deny sale to an army major who is going to deploy over seas? Imagine if one said "He looked a little odd and he's a Muslim so I'm not selling him a gun". The media and CAIR would've lynched the store owner.

[blackbart.223]

"And if I pull your left leg, does it play “Jingle Bells”?

No one has tried to do that so I don't know. I don't suspect I will ever know.

[Spktyr]

Citation for other pistol?

[myknowledge]

Hasan must have carries at least five 20 round clips for his Five-Seven.

[Spktyr]

It doesn’t feed off a clip, it feeds off a magazine. The magazine holds 20 rounds.

[Frantzie]

All AMERICAN troops should be able to carry firearms on base to protect them from Islamic agents of Saudi Arabia or Islamic infiltrators.

I am in no way a gun banner but this FNH’s ammo has a velocity higher than most rifle bullets.

[blackbart.223]

"Geez, I am in a crappy mood tonight!"

You and me both. I have to attend an ten hour OSHA class tommorow so I can keep my job. They just keep digging in. A pox on the lot of them.

[Darkwolf377]

I'm sorry to hear that.

My uncle was buried today. His son is a SEAL heading to Iraq for the fourth time. I started a new job, which I love, but it's working with kids who've been taken from abusive homes. Plus the attack on our troops, and the Matthews mindset about this "victim" terrorist.

So all of that is piling up on me tonight. But, it's ok, I come here and read articles and vent.

[OldDeckHand]

"Citation for other pistol?"

It's what they said on Nightline this evening. They talked about both weapons, the number of shots fired as well as showing some computer animation that recreated the attack and the take-down. You might look at ABCNews.com for video on the Nightline page.

[Spktyr]

Really? I didn't know the FiveSeveN ran off of clips. I thought it ran off magazines.

[blackbart.223]

"I am in no way a gun banner but this FNH’s ammo has a velocity higher than most rifle bullets."

Then you no nothing about firearms. A handgun is the weak sister to any rifle regardless of caliber. Do some research before you make a fool of yourself again.

[Frantzie]

P*** off RINO.

[redstateconfidential]

No, misconception, maybe out of a FN90, but their is an appreciable loss of muzzle velocity from the pistol barrel. The particular round was designed as a smg/carbine round for European battlefields ,that could penetrate the body armor of the 90s. FN Pistol FN90 and FS2000(5.56)

[Frantzie]

Maybe the chicken sh*t joint chiefs need to get a pair with the muslim and allow troops to have sidearms or order them to wear full body armor on base. This POS was a Saudi agent or infiltrator.

Thanks to CAIR, liberals and PC - they did nothing about this known and agressive threat to the troops. Give all AMERICAN troops sidearms. Sadly we have a totally corrupt judiciary who allows troops votes to be stolen and tells troops they have no standing. Corrupt judges like Carter and Land to name just 2.

[voteNRA]

LOL

I am going to "borrow" that image, its a pet peeve of mine as well and that pic gets the point across much better than words.

[DocH]

I saw a computer animation on MSNBC (I occassionally watch to see what the enemy is up to), and it was amateurish and ridiculous.

It appeared to show an assailant with a MAC-10 type weapon in each hand, and both were firing simultaneously and in FULL-auto mode.

Dumb-ass anti-gun msm pukes.

[DocH]

You can usually establish who is ignorant when it comes to knowledge about, and experience with firearms, and it’s often referring to a weapon’s magazine as a “clip”.

[OldDeckHand]

"Dumb-ass anti-gun msm pukes."

ABC's was fairly short and straightforward. It did show two handguns, and the rate of fire was reasonable. It's clear that if the civilian cop would have waited for backup - which seems to be the SOP in the actual civilian world - there would have been many more dead or wounded. She stopped him while he was literally shooting an already wounded soldier.

[Candor7]

Any gun can be a cop killing gun.

THe significant thing abiout this gun is that the ammo was developed by FN for the FN 5.7 hand gun and the FN bull pup style full auto carbine.

Out of the FN pistol, this ammo reaches muzzle velocity between 1800 and 1900 fps, near rifle velocity.That is why only jhp ammo is available to civilians.The military ammo can pierce class II body armor.Military 5.7 x 28 mm ammo is not available to civilians.

This is not anymore a cop killing gun than any gun.But it has a 20 + 1 mag. Lots of shooting without recharging the gun, and the high velocity ammo would go through three bodies before exhausting itself, like a rifle.Hasan’s purchase looks premeditated.

[Spktyr]

Sorry, he’s right.

Out of the FiveSeveN, the 5.7x28 is only moving at 1650 fps and has only 242 ft-lbs of energy.

The AR-15 firing the ‘weak’ 5.56x45 rifle cartridge makes 3200 fps and develops 1200ft-lbs of energy.

The heavier M1 or FAL firing the .308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO cranks out 2754 ft/sec. The reason that round is sometimes known as “the meat axe” becomes clear when you discover that it has **2422** ft-lbs of energy.

In fact, the 5.7mm isn’t that far off from 9mm velocities. The 9mm 115gr pistol bullet travels at 1300fps and has 420 ft-lbs of energy.

Sorry, you’re wrong. It’s just not that good a round.

[Spktyr]

Unless, of course, it’s one of the rare FALs and such that actually have both a detachable magazine and can load off a clip. :D

[Allegra]

...or order them to wear full body armor on base.

Oh, I can just hear the reaction of our troops to all bases going to mandatory permanent U-Level 3.

That language would be salty enough to peel the paint off of the walls.

[DocH]

You must be FN crazy.

[blackbart.223]

"You can usually establish who is ignorant when it comes to knowledge about, and experience with firearms, and it’s often referring to a weapon’s magazine as a “clip”."

The M1 Garand used a clip. The M14 uses a magazine as do my 1911 A1's

[Spktyr]

Well, yes. Browning/FN High Power/GP35 shooter from way back, and I like FALs a lot. :D

[Spktyr]

IIRC, the 1800-1900 number is only with the P90, not the FiveSeveN.

[redstateconfidential]

Our own soldiers can get now get killed on American soil, because of the Democrat party’s 40 year goal of destroying Christianity and Western Civilization.

[Spktyr]

Also, the overpenetration (and corresponding lack of bullet expansion) issue is what makes the FiveSeveN a terrible choice in an environment where people are not wearing armor - damn thing doesn’t do much permanent wound damage and just keeps going.

He would have done worse damage (and killed more people) if he’d had two run of the mill 9mms as IIRC nobody in the hall was wearing armor.

[blackbart.223]

"So all of that is piling up on me tonight. But, it's ok, I come here and read articles and vent."

At least we have a forum to do that. God bless and stay safe.

[umgud]

Now here's a pistol with a banana clip.

[Candor7]

Thank God he had a Euro gun.

Its a good think he didn’t book two .45 ACP pistols with high capacity mags.

[blackbart.223]

"P*** off RINO."

Are you refering to me? Or is it someone else.

[Spktyr]

Wouldn’t have had to be a .45ACP. In fact, for that room, a 9mm would have been a better choice (more ‘two-for-one’ mortal wounding, etc., etc.).

If he’d had something like the (EURO!) FN High Power 9mm (like my old friends currently in the safe), he could have doubled or tripled his kills. Or more.

[Candor7]

No the 1800 to 1900 is with the Five SevenN

the P90 generates over 2100 fps with the same round.

Specifications:

Bullet Type: JHP Lead Free

Length: 40.5mm (1.6 in)

Weight of Round: 6.15 g (95 gr.)

Weight of Projectile: 1.8 g (28 gr.)

Muzzle Velocity: P90 (2132 fps) - Five-seveN (1890 fps)

Muzzle Energy: P90 (282 ft-lbs) – Five-seveN (222 ft-lbs)

Source:

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1210.html

[Spktyr]

Okay, you’re looking at the SS195LF round. That’s normally only used for target practice. The SS197 is the current round and it generates about the lower numbers I used from the SS196 (which the 197 replaced.)

The SS195LF is only used for target practice because the muzzle energy is even worse than the 196/197 despite the velocity being higher. That’s why it’s ‘lead-free’.

[USNBandit]

You are right. The 5.7 is not an effective round unless you are going after people wearing body armor and you have access to the armor piercing ammo. No indication that the shooter had that ammo. If he did, somebody else is going to jail.

[Seven plus One]

Small, fast cartridges like these 5.7 MMJs (necked down .30 carbine) are not really new; handloaders have been enjoying them since the 50's. The little 40 grain bullets have limited penetration, but explosive expansion characteristics at moderate range. This is the first instance I've heard of the FN round used in a crime.