Vitter amendment on census falls in Senate vote (Count Illegal Aliens in Census)

Nola.com ^ | 11.5.09 | Jonathan Tilove

[trumandogz]

Sen. David Vitter's bid to require the 2010 Census to ask all respondents about their citizenship was killed today when the Senate voted to invoke cloture and end debate on the Commerce spending bill without having to consider the Louisiana Republican's amendment.

The Democratic leadership, which had been trying to block the Vitter amendment since early October, eked out a victory with the bare number of votes needed to invoke cloture, prevailing 60 to 39.

Vitter's Democratic colleague, Sen. Mary Landrieu, who had been caustic in her criticism of Vitter's measure, voted with the majority.

Vitter intended the citizenship count as a predicate to seeking to require that House seats be apportioned strictly on the basis of the citizen population of the United States, and not, as has always been the practice, on the total population.

[a fool in paradise]

That’s okay, Mexico encourages the legal immigrants to vote in both nations. So much for surrending foreign allegiances under oath.

[WOBBLY BOB]

...eked out a victory with the bare number of votes needed to invoke cloture, prevailing 60 to 39.

how did the usual RINOs vote?

[July4]

WHAT????? The US Census is going to ask the color of my drawers and won’t ask whether or not I’m a citizen?

[trumandogz]

The Constitution directs us to count “Persons” not only “Citizens.”

[Lurking Libertarian]

The Constitution is crystal-clear that anyone present here, legally or not, gets counted in the census: The 14th Amendment says that House members are apportioned based on "counting the whole number of persons in each State". As the article notes, the Census has always counted illegal aliens.

[Lurking Libertarian]

The Constitution is crystal-clear that anyone present here, legally or not, gets counted in the census: The 14th Amendment says that House members are apportioned based on "counting the whole number of persons in each State". As the article notes, the Census has always counted illegal aliens.

[OrioleFan]

It was a straight partyline vote 60-39 with Independent Lieberman and Socialist Sanders voting with the Democraps. RINO McCain did not vote.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Sorry for the double post.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

What’s wrong with counting them AND being able to identify them as illegals or legal residents and citizens?

[AuntB]

“What’s wrong with counting them AND being able to identify them as illegals or legal residents and citizens?”

They will not be asked if they are here legally...that would be ‘profiling’ and not PC. Illegal aliens have as much (and more in many cases)representation as you and I.

[concerned about politics]

The Constitution is crystal-clear that anyone present here, legally or not, gets counted in the census: The 14th Amendment says that House members are apportioned based on "counting the whole number of persons in each State". As the article notes, the Census has always counted illegal aliens.

Yeah, and today they're even allowed to vote, because no one dare ask if they're legal citizens - it's anti-liberal.

(political correctness was designed to silence people from speaking out against the left wing special interest groups).

[pabianice]

If this stands, that's pretty much it. 20 million illegals being counted as citizens; 20 million new Dem voters.

Had enough?

[concerned about politics]

If this stands, that's pretty much it. 20 million illegals being counted as citizens; 20 million new Dem voters.

Go Galt. Legally avoid taxation of any kind. Starve the beast. Watch them squirm for a change.

[browardchad]

What’s wrong with counting them AND being able to identify them as illegals or legal residents and citizens?

Nothing, as has been the practice in the past. If you look at the census returns from the past (1900 to 1930 -- none more recent available), the Census Bureau had no problem asking whether the person was citizen, when or if  they became naturalized, and what date they arrived in the U.S.

Everyone was counted, per the Constitution, but at least there was some kind of handle on who these "persons" living in the U.S. were, and whether they were citizens.

I would think that would be valuable information in the inevitable upcoming repeat of the amnesty debate.

[trumandogz]

If this stands, that's pretty much it. 20 million illegals being counted as citizens; 20 million new Dem voters.

The Census will simply be doing what the Framers directed them to do at that is to count everybody, not just citizens.

[mlstier]

that would be ‘profiling’

And what is the rest of the questionaire used for???

[gubamyster]

ping

[July4]

The census was established before the current invasion of illegals and did not anticipate that situation. It is necessary to count citizens to know how many representatives each state is entitled to. If illegals are counted, the system is broken.

[TribalPrincess2U]

But will they come out of the closet to be counted? Mmm,mmm,mmm

[trumandogz]

At different points in the Constitution, the Framers specifically used the word “citizen” and at other points use the word “people” or “persons.” If they had wanted us to only count citizens, they would have specified “citizens.”

If you wish to change that, you would need to amend the 14th Amendment.

[TribalPrincess2U]

the system was broken when the socialist took over, changed
the Constitution and made their own rules.

[July4]

“If they had wanted us to only count citizens, they would have specified ‘citizens.’ “

Maybe. But I still think that the nation’s founders did not anticipate the presence of millions of illegals in this country; thus, in my opinion, they used the terms citizens, people, and persons interchangeably. Please notice that they didn’t say, “Be sure to count legal and illegal persons.” I truly think they meant for Americans to be counted and for the proper number of representatives to be seated in Congress to represent the interests of those Americans.

[Lurking Libertarian]

It is necessary to count citizens to know how many representatives each state is entitled to.

The Constitution says that "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State..." Nothing in there about citizens.

Only citizens can vote for members of Congress, but the number of representaives in each state is based upon total population, not citizen population.

[Lurking Libertarian]

But I still think that the nation’s founders did not anticipate the presence of millions of illegals in this country; thus, in my opinion, they used the terms citizens, people, and persons interchangeably.

The requirement to count "the whole number of persons in each State" is from the 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868. There may not have been many illegal aliens in 1868, but there certainly were many unnaturalized immigrants.

[Tspud1]

Go back to the first few census that were taken and see if Indians and slaves were counted to see if Framers were thinking the way you are trying to get us to believe they were. We have changed many things since 1780’s so why not this count. Under your idea, the ILLEGALS will count to figure out congress districts and many other things. Do you think that is okay?

[Tspud1]

American Indians were excluded from the first six
censuses from 1790 through 1850 and slaves only counted 3/5.

[trumandogz]

Read the 14th Amendment which was ratified long after the first census.

[trumandogz]

“they used the terms citizens, people, and persons interchangeably.”

no, they did not use those words interchangeably.

If that were the case, all people, not just citizens could vote.

[trumandogz]

“the system was broken when the socialist took over, changed
the Constitution and made their own rules.”

When was that?

[TribalPrincess2U]

When 0 took office along with the rest of the socialist. IMO

[scrabblehack]

In Baker vs. Carr, William Brennan specifically mentioned citizens’ right to vote. So strictly speaking the Federal Census cannot be used to apportion state legislatures unless they do ask citizenship.

[trumandogz]

I don't think is was Obama who authored the 14th Amendment which directs us to count all “persons” in the Census.

[Tspud1]

You didn’t answer my question. I have read the 14th

[Regulator]

as has always been the practice

We didn't have 20 million invaders in our midst for pretty much all the previous counts.

Illegal aliens have no right to representation, since they are not part of the nation.

[trumandogz]

Under your idea, the ILLEGALS will count to figure out congress districts and many other things. Do you think that is okay?

Not my idea, but rather it was the idea of the Framers of the Constitution and the 14th Amendment that all persons should be counted in order to conduct reapportionment.