This could be America if gay marriage were to be omnipresent.
Posted on 11/01/2009 2:06:11 PM PST by Maelstorm
Raleigh, N.C. – Two weeks out from election day Maine voters are divided right down the middle when it comes to whether they will reject the state’s law allowing same sex couples to marry. 48% say they will vote to over turn the law while 48% say they will vote to keep it with only 4% of the electorate still undecided. Opinion on the issue predictably breaks heavily along party lines. 74% of Republicans are planning to vote yes while only 25% of Democrats are. Independents may end up deciding which way it goes- presently 50% of them support rejecting the law with 44% in opposition. Older voters are strongest in their support of cutting off gay marriage. 54% are in support with 40% opposed. Senior citizens can often dominate the electorate in low turnout elections so the ultimate fate of this measure may lie in how many younger people get out to the polls and vote. There is a strong gender gap on the issue with 53% of men but only 43% of women wanting to reject the law. It’s also interesting to note that while white voters oppose undoing the law by a thin 47-45 margin, nonwhite voters in the state support rejection by a 55-35 margin, creating the overall tie. “The fate of Question 1 is going to be decided by which side does a better job of mobilizing their supporters to get out and vote,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling. “Voters in the state know where they stand on the issue and now it’s just an issue of who shows up.” PPP surveyed 1,130 likely voters from October 16th to 19th. The survey’s margin of error is +/-2.9%. Other factors, such as refusal to be interviewed and weighting, may introduce additional error that is more difficult to quantify. Complete results are attached and can be found at www.publicpolicypolling.com.
Agreed, but we will at the very least have gay marriage in all but the most rural-dominated states in 15 years, and will likely have it at a national level in 20.
Your lips to gods ears. You should see what is going on with this situation...
HREF=”http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/127393.html";>Link to the BDN</a>
A tie this close shouldn’t be a problem. Gay “marriage” polls always under poll and the antis get stronger as the vote gets closer. Even in deep blue Maine it should pass 53 /47. How it does in the expected court challenge is a different story.
You are wrong. We are going to turn it back. The fight isn’t over even though you seem to wish it to be so.
We should’ve preemptively gotten a Constitutional Amendment passed. The fact that we’ve become so sick and twisted a society where same-sex marriage is a possibility that this is even necessary to pass such a law to protect marriage shows how close we are to losing our country.
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These initiatives have been losing support at a rate of 2% per year. The younger generation is much more comfortable with the idea of gay marriage.
Personally, I don't think there should be ANY government marriage, nor should the tax code favor married people.
BTW: I would vote against government-sanctioned same sex marriage if I were in Maine, if that is what you are wondering.
This could be America if gay marriage were to be omnipresent.
Maine isn’t really a deep blue state. It is a deep independent state. The problem in Maine is the lack of GOP machine not the lack of potential voters. The same can be said for many of the NE states. They are far more conservative than given credit the problem is if you let the Democrats have the field then how do we expect the game to go? I believe even in Massachusetts gay marriage would be overturned if the battle were waged effectively. There has never been a majority support for gay marriage or the homosexual agenda. The only time the support increases is when we quit fighting.
Gay marriage has occurred in lily white states like NH, VT and IA. America is becoming less white. Minorities would stand up and say no to gay marriage like they did in AZ, CA and FL last year. The perplexing problem for the GOP would be these same anti-gay marriage minorites would never vote for a Republican.
What you are not looking at is that people as they get older tend to become more conservative. What do you expect young dumb kids to believe with TV shows promoting homosexual characters as innocuous? I was more liberal when I was younger. Not on gay marriage though no one had told me it was wrong. They didn’t have to it is just one of those things that is instinctively apparent. However on issues like socialism I was more receptive.
That extra 1% is the built in advantage that democrats always enjoy.
Not on this issue.
.....not surprizing...Maine elected Olympia Snowe!
True. And you know why that is.
You beat me me to it. Only in Maine can they come up with 101%.
I was reading just the other day how the New England area is the least religious area of the country. This just confirms it.
Wonder if those who think same sex marriages are OK would vote for polygamy
Agreed. I take some comfort in the fact that over the last few years the number of people who consider themselves pro-life has been slowly increasing. Maybe it's that people are educating themselves on the issue, maybe they see the radicals in power and their taking a good hard look at what abandoning traditional values ultimately gets you. Hopefully the same will hold true with this issue. Anytime the people vote on it through referendum gay marriage always loses. Remember the truth resonates with most people.
Even Alice in Wonderland could not conceive that any voter in his/her right mind would define same sex union as marriage.
I just said a prayer to defeat this abomination. Everyone else should too. The Lord will hear it.
I'm going to do my part to make that happen. Then the perverts will keep bringing the issue up until it passes without recourse.
I'm a conservative on 99% of issues - I believe in limited government, the unconditional right to bear arms, a balanced budget, a strong national defense including a missle defense system, am Pro-Israel, pro-life, support low taxes, vehemently oppose Unions card-checks, and support the right of parents to determine the education and religious upbringing of their children without government interference. But you are not going to get me to tell someone that the government has the right to determine their private, consensual, relationship.
As a Christian, I have my own beliefs on the matter because I believe the Bible is my authority. That's a matter for my family and church. As a citizen of the Republic, I cannot support the idea that the public is going to determine whether or not two grown adults can enter into a legally binding contract (which is what marriage is in the eyes of the law).
Here's the kicker: I'm in my mid-twenties. Most of my friends feel the same way, and most all of them are identical on political issues (pro-life, pro-guns, pro-defense, etc.) I would bet a significant sum of cash that the earlier poster hit the time table on the head - within 20 years, gay marriage will be no more controversial than interracial marriage because my generation just doesn't care. I think anyone who thinks they can convince younger voters to change their position is living in a fool's paradise.
That's why I've also said that the best way for conservatism to win is to focus on the advice of Benjamin Franklin - we must appeal to voter's interest rather than reason. We must show them that conservatism means more money in their paycheck and less government in their lives. We must convince them that conservatism means the freedom to chose their own path without interference from a nanny state. The demographic trends show that on this issue, like racism in the United States, every day that goes by the demographics shift beneath our party, just like sands in an hourglass. Time is not on the side of those who believe in one man one woman marriage as many of us Christians do. To fail to recognize that reality is to fail to rationally and objectively look at the facts.
Evolution is only possible with HETEROSEXUAL relationships. This is a scientific fact...
As a Christian,...
BULLSHIITE!
I have my own beliefs on the matter because I believe the Bible is my authority. That's a matter for my family and church.
Religious faggotry is an insular self-referential cult.
To fail to recognize that reality is to fail to rationally and objectively look at the facts.
REALITY is axiomatic... If you have to tell a grown man babies will not emerge from his rectum, he is mentally ill.
You of course then, would have no problem with polygamous and polyamourous marriages? In other words, the word marriage will be meaningless.
The two angels that the men of the town attempted to rape did so after they had already been sent there to take Abraham's nephew Lot out of the city so that couldn't be the sole reason the city was destroyed. It was just icing on the proverbial sin cake.
America has been violating almost everything on the "Sodom" list in Ezekiel for about 100 years now and as a Church, we have done virtually nothing to stop it. As a Christian, we have beliefs on the mortality of homosexuality but to say it was 100% responsible for the destruction of Sodom is blatantly against scripture because God spelled it out to warn his children that they were committing the same sins and would be obliterated if they didn't repent and turn back to Him.
Your elder sister is Samaria who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters. You not only followed their ways, and acted according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways. As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it. - Ezekiel 16:46-50
Throughout the old and new testaments, God showed tremendous mercy to His people. You're arguing that if we allow gays to get married, there will be more homosexuality in America and thus we will be more like Sodom? You realize that if someone wants to screw members of the same gender they are already doing it - the lack of "marriage" isn't going to stop them so it would have no influence on the percentage of our population that was sinning against God. Furthermore, the same percentage of people were probably screwing the same gender back in the 19th century but they hid it behind sham marriages and in back rooms. Do you think God only hates sin when its public? Or do you think he overlooks that which is in private so it doesn't count? I'm not sure I understand your logic.
I hope I said that clearly. I'm trying to read a book but thought I'd check the latest stories on here and don't feel like going back and editing.
Blah, blah, blah...
You are in direct contempt of Genesis... You might has well throw the rest of your Bible in the trash...
Today's "conservative" elderly voters are the same people that would be considered crazy liberals by their grandparents' standards. They have probably gotten divorced, accept their social security checks, gamble at the riverboat (the biggest demographic for casinos), and listen to rock 'n roll.
Society very, very rarely grows more conservative in an absolute sense. That's why I said to think otherwise is to live in a fool's paradise. The same people used that argument to believe that someday, the younger voters would realize women working was a bad idea or that blacks and whites shouldn't get married. It's faulty logic. People's beliefs get more ingrained as they get older, not less.
I think the idea that Sodom was destroyed because it wasn't hospitable enough is idiotic and only someone who was trying to make the Bible fit his own agenda would believe that.
But I believe the Bible is the Word of God so my personal belief is that when God spelled out the reasons for Sodom's destruction in Ezekiel, providing a bullet-point list as to why it was wiped off the face of the earth and warning his children that they were coming dangerously close to committing the same sin, it's the truth. It specifically, to-the-point without exception or any wiggle room says that Sodom was destroyed because she didn't share her wealth. (I posted the verse in the other post so you could read it.)
I'm a huge capitalist. I'm also rich. I hate socialism with a deep, abiding passion. But the reality is, the verse said that (I posted it earlier). I'm not going to call God a liar even if it's inconvenient for me. If I disagree with it, that means that Ezekiel is less the word of God than Genesis and then we have a huge problem because we get to pick and chose what is right for us, as Christians. I don't believe we have that luxury because I believe we are called to a different standard than the world.
Yes, evidence of that insular, self-referential cult I wrote about earlier...
The idea of a camel passing through the eye of a needle comes directly to mind...
2.) I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I believe that He died for my sins and rose on the third day. I believe that I am accountable to Him for my sins, thoughts, and actions, and that I'm called to a different standard than the world. I believe that by His grace, and not my actions, I am saved. I also believe that I have to live holy as a testament to Him. Yes. I'm a Christian. yes, I live my life according to His standard for morality.
I have a problem with the GOVERNMENT telling people what is and what is not acceptable between consenting adults (not churches, not families, not friends) for the same reason I don't think they have a right to FORCE me to take a vaccine or FORCE me to procreate for the good of the nation. The Government must be morally neutral (as a protestant, I don't believe my divorced grandmother is going to hell but there are some Orthodox Christians who believe that with all of their heart; if we let the Government outlaw divorce, they are imposing their religious beliefs on me).
Again, your reproduction argument isn't logical either because as Christians, our only argument for our own lives should be something is immoral or moral because God said so. Period. There have been multiple posts in the past few days on Free Republic about scientists perfecting techniques that will let two women or two men biologically procreate genetic offspring together, just like an inferitble couple would. Would that suddenly make homosexuality moral? According to your logic it would. Again: Morality or immorality is determined by the Word of God and not by your opinion of scientific fact.
The reason I so strongly believe in the right of individual families and churches to make religious decisions is because I'm a student of history. Our ancestors slaughtered themselves over questions of whether Mary remained a virgin after she birthed Jesus or whether the bread literally becomes the body of Christ or is merely representative of the body of Christ. I don't want the Government to have any say, in any way, shape, or form, on any religious matter. A perfect case in point: I agree on 99% of issues with my Christian brethren but because I have pause over one issue that many in my generation do, you literally attempting to pass judgment on whether or not I'm saved (which, frankly, is a right that neither you nor any other man has).
If you can't understand the rational logic behind that, then I pardon your mental deficiency.
I am an atheist and I do know how to spot a cultural marxist
I reject your religious faggotry as well as your false witness of the Bible. If you deny Genesis, you deny the whole thing baby boy.
In fact I would bet, despite your fatuous fakery, you would excuse just about any perversity as long as it was beneficial to you in some way.
Sanctimonious creeps like you are the ruin of this country.
You said something wasn't in the Bible. I provided the verse showing that it was, word for word.
You then said I denied Genesis.
How this is the case, I don't understand because those weren't my words, I just posted the Ezekiel verse you claimed didn't exist letter for letter.
God specifically gave a list of all of the reasons Sodom was destroyed, among which was homosexuality. You said he never said anything about Sodom not sharing it's wealth when yes, He did. It's right there - go pick up the Bible and open it to the verse! How can you deny that it is there? Seriously?!
What don't you understand about that? What, in that statement, was Biblically incorrect? Or am I only allowed to quote the few lines of the Bible you've actually read?
Christians like you are the ones that don't actually bother to read anything more than the flash cards they see in Sunday school. You know, we're supposed to read the whole book. You realize Jesus was a Jew, right? And you realize that Adam and Even could not have, by definition, been white because we're less than 5% of the population and have only existed in Northern Europe for a few thousand years.
No, you are the type of Christian that give us a bad name. You never actually read the Bible, make up what you want, and assume that anyone who disagrees with you has an ulterior motive. Sorry - I realize ulterior is probably a big word for you. Should have gone with something smaller.
I'm an atheist.
LIARS!
Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness
[1] Besides these sovereign powers, divine and human, of which I have hitherto discoursed, there is mention in Scripture of another power, namely, that of “the rulers of the darkness of this world,” [Ephesians, 6. 12] “the kingdom of Satan,” [Matthew, 12. 26] and “the principality of Beelzebub over demons,” [Ibid., 9. 34] that is to say, over phantasms that appear in the air: for which cause Satan is also called “the prince of the power of the air”; [Ephesians, 2. 2] and, because he ruleth in the darkness of this world, “the prince of this world”:[John, 16. 11] and in consequence hereunto, they who are under his dominion, in opposition to the faithful, who are the “children of the light,” are called the “children of darkness.” For seeing Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the gospel; and so to disprepare them for the kingdom of God to come.
And dude, seriously - you have way too much emotional energy invested in this thing to be arguing with me over whether or not things exist in the Bible, especially since you don't believe in anything.
The fact that you've gone from telling me verses don't exist in the Bible to telling me that I'm not a Christian makes no sense in light of the fact you don't believe there is a God and clearly have zero knowledge of scripture. You're probably a 14 year old kid. I'm not wasting my time on this anyone because you haven't made one useful observation about how the conservatives can take back over the government in light of the demographic challenges that are presenting themselves right now.
We can sit in an echo chamber and scream all day but I have one interest and one interest only: To get conservatives back in control of the government so that we can limit government involvement in the day-to-day lives of citizens. Your positions have no theoretical or practical foundation. I have just as much contempt for that sort of worthless screaming at the wind as I do the union supporters that talk about how they deserve $100,000 per year health care benefits. It's just a pointless conversation to have.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/hobbes/leviathan-contents.html
"When the fairies are displeased with anybody, they are said to send their elves to pinch them. The ecclesiastics, when they are displeased with any civil state, make also their elves, that is, superstitious, enchanted subjects, to pinch their princes, by preaching sedition; or one prince, enchanted with promises, to pinch another." (Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan 1651)
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/hobbes/leviathan-contents.html
You're an atheist. You don't believe God exists. You don't believe in Jesus Christ. I have absolutely no interest in your opinion on the matter. You're wasting your time.
Someone else who actually believes in Christ, who wants to come along and say, "Hey - but what about [insert verse here]. You need to think of it this way." is useful. As a Christian, I value that input because if I'm wrong on something, I want to know.
But I don't want an atheist telling me what is or is not in the Bible when I can open for myself and find the verse.
Hobbes nailed you fake religionists to the wall in 1651 for the less educated readers of the Bible.
The evidence in nature is powerful enough.
Now, if I have to explain the "birds and bees" with colorful crayon drawings and how getting the government out of the tax deduction/gay marriage/social engineering scam is practical, you are the hopelessly lost false prophet of filth...
Silly faggot, marriage is for kids...
But you, of course, think the big "G" government will solve all of our problems. Heck, let's use it like a stick, just like the liberal left does. Why not? That philosophy served us so well over the past decade. While we're at it, let's tell blacks they can't married, force women to work back at home, and since you're an atheist, we can use the government to ban religion altogether - surely you'd support that? People like me, with our silly Christian beliefs are certainly an impediment to your idea of a religion-free world.
Your very existence is the reason I believe in limited government. The idea of other people being able to tell me, or my family, or my friends, or my church how to live is repulsive. It makes me thank God (yes - GOD) that I was born and raised in the United States.
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