Posted on 10/02/2009 7:11:27 AM PDT by larry hagedon
They said we could not use ethanol blends higher than 10 percent too, then they very grudgingly are agreeing to allow 15 percent.
I have a 92 Chrysler that I use 85 percent ethanol in quite often, and have for a year, with no damage.
This is why the DOD ordered several different bio jet fuels from several different sources to test. They are writing the military procurement specs based on that testing.
They are writing the military specs for bio fuels based on the testing now being done. They will be stringent, but very attainable.
The article, from an obvious bio-fuel advocate, makes no mention of whether or not the effort is to provide fuel that is totally compatible with existing jet engines under all current and projected uses, and all of their fuel delivery components. The costs and downtime of such an effort should be obvious.
Currently, where does the fuel come from on overseas missions, is it from local sources, or is it from CONUS?
Sure we need to drill here drill now. I am 100 percent for that.
At the same time bio technology takes any bio based carbon containing material on earth and makes it into useful products. This includes garbage, sewage, animal manures, storm damage, construction and demolition debris, road kill, nutrient rich run off from farm fields and any crops that can be grown in field or ocean.
You mention not using food based crops to make fuel. If we stopped making fuel from corn, we would have to cut back drastically on corn production, which would throw many thousands of people out of work. At least 10 million farm acres would have to be retired from corn production, at a cost of billions of dollars in federal subsidies to farmers to not grow corn on their land.
The Iowa bio processing Center near me, tips a semi load of corn every two and a half minutes, makes around 30 separate products, including various foods and fuels, and employs well over 2,000 people at good paying technical jobs.
Three points here.
As we ramp up technologies, we will reclaim water from garbage, sewage, animal manures, corn, and many other bio feedstocks, use it to grow green algae perhaps to get the nutrients out of it and purify it as needed. We will then use it for things like watering livestock or irrigating the San Juaquin Valley.
We always, always, always produce more corn than we have markets for. Corn could well hit 8 bucks next year, but it will not be because of corn shortages. The biggest factors causing the corn price spike last year were petroleum prices and market speculation. We always produce all the corn we can sell, and are constantly developing new products to make from corn to increase the market. We still have the capacity to double American corn production.
Corn has a big competitor coming on the market for most of the corn based products marketed. Green Algae production is ramping up at a high rate of speed, and you can make nearly anything out of green algae you can make from petroleum or corn, including food and gasoline.
Your info is way out of date. They solved the gell problem months ago, proly the military solved it years ago.
Trust the military on this one, they do not want expensive bombers and fighters falling out of the sky. They did not buy 600,000 gallons of jet fuel that gells up in use.
It is extremely expensive to ship fuel to remote war zones.
Being able to produce large quantities of truck, tank and jet fuel on board old oil tankers sitting along the coast or a few miles at sea will be very valuable to the military.
Many bio fuel processes are coming in at under a dollar a gallon. No way you can ship petroleum based fuel half way around the world from Colorado or Texas oil fields and refineries for that.
The race is on with the Russians and Chinese to develop these technologies. We need to at least stay even with them on this.
You will not experience the same gell as those school buses did.
That was either a bad batch of fuel that was not inspected properly, and that the military would not have accepted, or it was # 2 diesel inadvertently put in the # 1 tanks.
Number two petroleum diesel does gell like that.
Forget the greener place.
Look at the thousands of companies, the hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs being created. Look at using our corn crop for best uses with hundreds of food products, animal feed products, pharmaceuticals, industrial chemicals, plastics, and fuel too, instead of just feeding it to hogs.
Look at making hundreds or thousands of valuable products from garbage, sewage, animal manures, nutrient rich run off from farm fields, all kinds of wood wastes, industrial wastes, paper company black liquor, heck even road kill.
The incoming Age of Bio Technology is an exciting time to live in.
Planes spewing pig fuel...Now that is a good one. It is coming.
Early bio diesel had a gelling problem, just like #2 petroleum diesel does. That has been fixed.
I can guarantee you our military is not going to send a squadron of bombers with fighter support out on a mission critical war target if they have the slightest worry the fuel will gell.
I guarantee you the DOD knows how cold it is upstairs.
Military bio fuels will be to military specs.
There are thousands of companies world wide working on a vast array of new bio fuel products.
One big deep pocket company has been buying up closed corn ethanol plants and converting them to produce bio butanol.
The future of bio processing will include a variety of feedstocks and/or products from each plant. For instance, the largest corn ethanol company, Poet out of Kansas, is now adding corn cobs to their feedstock and making more ethanol from them.
Really? You can guarantee that Hussein couldn't find individuals at the DoD...both in uniforms and in suits...who would sign off on such a scenario? I'd wager my last nickel that he could find at least a few such individuals...maybe even lots of them.
I dont know where fuel comes from now for military theaters of war. I suppose it could even be a military secret.
The DOD is setting aside 2 years for testing, and improvements in the new bio technology are coming rapidly. I expect they will get all their ducks in a row by the end of the test period, but time will tell. That is why it is a test.
Come on now, lets stay with credible facts here.
No way Obama could pull off something like sabotaging the fuel for a squadron of jet planes, even if he had a reason, which he does not.
So you can't think of a single reason why Hussein would want to do to our military what he's well on his way to doing to out health care system? You lack imagination,my friend! And as for finding the people to make it happen...always remember.....Murtha was a Marine Corps Colonel (or Lieutenant Colonel,can't remember which).
Get real.
Obama is supposed to sabotage enough fuel for a squadron of planes, and not one person realize it is happening and report it or stop it?
Not happenin.
True, my point?
Our military needs to have alternates - and the USAF has tested coal based fuels.
I was pointing the Germans as an example the impact (good or bad) altenate fuels can hae in a warfighting environment.
I hear you and I think I follow what you are saying.
Converting waste like sewage, garbage and manure into fuel would be ideal. The perfect recycle. But in practice, waste is seldom used.
As for corn production having to be cut, I think that’s a political problem, not an agricultural one, as long as people anywhere in the world are starving.
My point is that oil is for cars; corn is for people. Switching is perversion.
Your BMW diesel engine is much more complex than a jet engine.
A jet engine requires exotic materials to withstand the combustion gasses but otherwise is a simple machine. Essentially two fans and some technology to monitor the combustion and pump the fuel. It has the ability to burn large amounts of fuel and turn it into thrust but is not particularly efficient doing so.
Your diesel engine has many more unique parts that require tight tolerances. It requires specific fuel and air delivery. There are more sensors and gizmos. That does not even take into account the extra emissions technology attached.
A jet engine is much more tolerant to variations in fuel than an internal combustion engine. In fact there is a good chance the the electricity powering your computer comes from a modified jet engine burning powered coal!
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