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When Will The Recovery Begin? Never.
TPM ^ | July 9, 2009 | Robert Reich

Posted on 07/12/2009 10:20:02 AM PDT by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

The so-called "green shoots" of recovery are turning brown in the scorching summer sun. In fact, the whole debate about when and how a recovery will begin is wrongly framed. On one side are the V-shapers who look back at prior recessions and conclude that the faster an economy drops, the faster it gets back on track. And because this economy fell off a cliff late last fall, they expect it to roar to life early next year. Hence the V shape. Unfortunately, V-shapers are looking back at the wrong recessions. Focus on those that started with the bursting of a giant speculative bubble and you see slow recoveries. The reason is asset values at bottom are so low that investor confidence returns only gradually.

That's where the more sober U-shapers come in. They predict a more gradual recovery, as investors slowly tiptoe back into the market.

Personally, I don't buy into either camp. In a recession this deep, recovery doesn't depend on investors. It depends on consumers who, after all, are 70 percent of the U.S. economy. And this time consumers got really whacked. Until consumers start spending again, you can forget any recovery, V or U shaped.

Problem is, consumers won't start spending until they have money in their pockets and feel reasonably secure. But they don't have the money, and it's hard to see where it will come from. They can't borrow. Their homes are worth a fraction of what they were before, so say goodbye to home equity loans and refinancings. One out of ten home owners is under water -- owing more on their homes than their homes are worth. Unemployment continues to rise, and number of hours at work continues to drop. Those who can are saving. Those who can't are hunkering down...

(Excerpt) Read more at tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bailout; bhoeconomy; business; economy; noshit; stimulus
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1 posted on 07/12/2009 10:20:03 AM PDT by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

Yep, hard to spend money you don’t have, unless you’re in
government, then it all belongs to you.


2 posted on 07/12/2009 10:22:39 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

I’m agreeing with Robert Reich????? Help, i’m melting, melting....


3 posted on 07/12/2009 10:25:41 AM PDT by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org/)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
I am so sick of the Effing ‘Green Sprouts’ analogies shouted at me by the likes of CNBC’s Kudlow I need to protect my TV from projectiles.

The painful truth is that tthe US Economy has changed and it is going to proceed forward under the laws of gravity. The excesses of the past (And the past comprises about the last 40 years) are being absorbed and what emerges will be a very different economic picture - One of slow growth (If any) and reduced purchasing power.

Inflation will accomplish both of these outcomes.

4 posted on 07/12/2009 10:25:55 AM PDT by TCats
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

It’s a Recession when the guy next door is laid off and unemployed.

It’s a Depression when you’re laid off and unemployed.

It’s a Recovery when the Democrat Politicians are laid off and unemployed.


5 posted on 07/12/2009 10:26:10 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
When Will The Recovery Begin? Never.

Certainly while 0bama is in power!

6 posted on 07/12/2009 10:26:12 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Remove the Kenyan Usurper - FUBO!)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

I think this recession has done me a huge favor. I haven’t been “poor” since I left home at 19 and made my own way. I’ve always afforded whatever I wanted or needed.

In the last four months, I’ve learned to be cheap. I don’t pay retail for anything I absolutely don’t have to. No $4.00 cups of coffee. No fast food. No lunches at restaurants that cater to the business crowd. (I’d forgotten exactly how good PB&J tastes!) No bottled water. No running out daily for tonight’s dinner ingredients. Buying my clothes at the Salvation Army saves bunches. Online purchasing of close outs saves an amazing amount of money.

It’s been easy and fun to focus on keeping the money in my pocket.


7 posted on 07/12/2009 10:26:42 AM PDT by Glenn (Free Venezuela!)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

We should have listened to Dr. Doom

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/magazine/17pessimist-t.html?_r=1


8 posted on 07/12/2009 10:27:54 AM PDT by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

It will begin when we bring manufacturing back to the states.


9 posted on 07/12/2009 10:28:15 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

I hate to say I agree with Robert Reich, but . . . I agree with Robert Reich.


10 posted on 07/12/2009 10:28:35 AM PDT by ottbmare (Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Obama!)
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To: mysterio

That will happen when we want to live at the same standard of living as the rest of the world or even lower. No Thanks.


11 posted on 07/12/2009 10:29:22 AM PDT by Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

It won’t come back until people living on credit are wiped out of the system!


12 posted on 07/12/2009 10:29:26 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
There is not going to BE a recovery.

The middle class is being destroyed and all their wealth is being hoovered up by the evil psycho twins of Washington DC and Wall Street.

13 posted on 07/12/2009 10:30:12 AM PDT by ikka (Brother, you asked for it!)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

This guy is brilliant! He must have been reading some of my replies here on FR. We are on the “frippery” slope. A consumer driven economy with basically non-necessity based employment (fripperies) can’t restart without demand rise which can’t come because lower demand for fripperies. Add 60 to a 100 trillion real deficit, and a half dozen more bubbles to burst, like prime mortgages, credit card debt, commercial real estate collapse and we have THE GREATER DEPRESSION of 2010 thru .....????

I have never pushed the panic button until now and I am pushing and holding it in. I hope I am wrong, and we recover, but I just don’t see the dynamics that will permit that to happen. What will happen, IMHO, is massive gov’t printing of money. A Basic Income Grant to each American from gov’t to pay for necessities and the related inflation.

After run of hyperinflation, which will also be used to pay off our international creditors and the deficit, a new American currency will be created, as in Weimar, and we will restabilize. But, probably a decade or two in the future after complete collapse of what we know now.

Hopefully, we will emerge as a kinder, gentler nation, but who knows. Maybe it will be Mad Max world.

parsy, who is prepared to weld iron grating to the front of his Dodge truck and put spikes on his wheels. (I ain’t wearing no silly looking muzzle though. That looks so gay.)


14 posted on 07/12/2009 10:34:30 AM PDT by parsifal ("Knock and ye shall receive!" (The Bible, somewhere.))
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

My son was cut to 4 days a week, he doesn’t have any vacation time but he asked the boss for a week off and he said sure, he was supposed to go home today but called the boss and asked if he could have some more time, the boss told him he didn’t need him until Thursday.

They used to do all the dirt work and sewers in new subdivisions and the only thing keeping them afloat is the old, old, rich customers who need a little work on their properties.

They used to do some state work but that has dried up and they don’t do Federal contracts. My son will be the last to go before the business closes but....


15 posted on 07/12/2009 10:37:20 AM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
That will happen when we want to live at the same standard of living as the rest of the world or even lower. No Thanks.

The quickest way to that eventuality is to manufacture everything abroad. Cheap stuff has proved to be quite expensive. No thanks.
16 posted on 07/12/2009 10:37:42 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass
It will never recover until government spending is cut and taxes are cut. Fire them all at the voting booth. Both parties suck.
17 posted on 07/12/2009 10:38:17 AM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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To: Pride_of_the_Bluegrass

Well, then, Bob...your guy is screwed.


18 posted on 07/12/2009 10:38:44 AM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: Glenn
I think this recession has done me a huge favor. I haven’t been “poor” since I left home at 19 and made my own way. I’ve always afforded whatever I wanted or needed.

Wow, you are a CNN/MSNBC story waiting to happen. Sounds like the CNN the woman the other day talking about all of the good coming from the current economy -- sure people are going homeless but they are learning to live with less which helps everyone, mostly the environment.

19 posted on 07/12/2009 10:42:48 AM PDT by Naspino (Not creative enough to have a tagline.)
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To: parsifal

Should the dollar collape, be looking for the Balkinzation of the USA into 4 or 5 separate nations. DC will become slum (most of it already is) and war with the Federal forces will be short since the military won’t get paid.


20 posted on 07/12/2009 10:43:54 AM PDT by DownInFlames (C)
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