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CA: Action required; Lead ammo ban
California NRA Members' Councils CAL-ERT System ^ | 6/12/09 | NRA/CRPA

Posted on 06/15/2009 9:10:02 AM PDT by Redcloak

Multiple Organization Alert



CAL-ERT  06/12/09 --- Noon
This information is accurate at the time this CAL-ERT was written and originally distributed. The NRA Members' Councils of California and the California Rifle and Pistol Association have issued this alert in a cooperative effort and will keep you informed as issues affect your gun-rights in California.


On February 5, 2009, we informed you that the California Fish and Game Commission was considering a state-wide ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting. After a ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting in areas occupied by the California condor (AB821) was signed into law in 2007, the Commission used its hunting regulations to unnecessarily extend the ban to include .22 rimfire ammunition and to expand the boundaries where the ban applies. 

From the beginning, proponents of the current ban have wanted lead ammunition banned state-wide.  The California condor was simply being used as an excuse by the anti-hunters and anti-gunners to carry out this agenda.  They have already achieved a partial ban.  Their ultimate goal is to take the ban state-wide! If they are successful, they will push to ban the use of lead ammunition for everyone, not just hunters. 


Strange as it may seem, the California Fish and Game Commission is denying that a state-wide ban is being considered. 

In fact, the exact statement is "Contrary to stories circulating the Internet, the Fish and Game Commission is NOT considering a Statewide ban of lead ammunition in California."  They have also said, "Contrary to action alerts sent by Nation Riffle Association [sic] and California Riffle and Pistol Association, [sic] the Fish and Game Commission is NOT considering a Statewide ban of lead ammunition in California."  

The only reasonable explanation is that someone is quite misinformed, or someone is not being forthright with their responses. 

How do California's hunters, shooters, and sportsmen  learn the real story? 

Pamela Flick of The Defenders of Wildlife proves CFG Commissioner Kellogg right: It's not about the condors; it's about banning lead ammo.

Who will tell the public the facts regarding this important matter?   WE WILL! ! !  

If a Fish and Game Commissioner, during the hearing, would actually suggest and/or attempt to place the issue of a state-wide lead ammunition ban on an upcoming Commission agenda, we would know for sure and be able to prove that the threat is real.

That is exactly what California Fish and Game Commission member Michael Sutton suggested on February 5, 2009! 


As everyone can see, by viewing this video, Commissioner Sutton agreed with the extremist views of the radical environmental groups when among other things, he stated, "....then I'm going to suggest that we agendize this........and consideration of possible further action." 

He was responding to the calls for a state-wide lead ammunition ban! (see video above

After some rather strong discussion, Commissioner Sutton backed-away from his attempt to place a state-wide lead ammunition ban on the agenda.  He, and others on the commission who have voted for lead ammunition bans in the past, appeared to attempt to justify possible future actions by stating that they didn't want " get ahead of the science." 

But there isn't any valid scientific studies that justify the existing or future lead ammunition bans.  And simply responding with such extreme measures, based upon questionable data and rhetoric is bad public policy in any venue. 

CFG commissioners Rogers and Sutton are doing their best to get out in front of the science. Of course, they fervently deny that this is what they're doing, but it's hard to reach any other conclusion. What else should we conclude when Sutton asks if the staff's report will be done in time to vote on the issue? Or when he pushes to "agendize" a statewide lead ammo before the scientists release their findings?

So, where does this leave shooters, hunters, and sportsmen, in the Golden State? 

After the California Alert System notification on February 5, 2009 received general circulation, sportsmen from across the state contacted the Fish and Game and they have not publicly proposed considering a "state-wide" ban since that February 5, 2009 meeting. 

As a result of negotiations with environmental groups who support the banning of lead ammunition, the California Fish and Game has agreed to place on the Commission's Agenda, an expansion of the lead ammunition ban within the so-called "Condor Zone."  Lead ammunition ban proponents are hoping to receive the support of the same commissioners who voted their way on the current lead ammunition ban regulations.  California's sportsmen must inform the Fish and Game Commission that more bans on lead ammunition is not the right thing to do and will not go unnoticed. 

There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is the source of lead affecting the health of condors released to the wild.  There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is a risk to human health and the environment in California.  What is evident is that there are a group of special interests that have friends on the Commission who will not stop until the most affordable, available, and balistically superior ammunition available is banned in our state.  When that happens they know the damage it will do to hunting and shooting participation. 


  1. Please write AND call the California Fish and Game Commission and request that they oppose all efforts to expand the ban on lead ammunition.

  2. If you can attend the Fish and Game Commission meetings on June 24th & 25th, in Woodland, CA., PLEASE ATTEND  and let your voice be heard.  Inform the Commissioners that you do not support any expansion of the Lead Ammunition Ban in California.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Although the NRA and CRPA vigorously opposed AB821 back in 2007, it is now law.  However, it is unfortunate that the CA. Fish & Game Commission expanded the restrictions much farther than those required by AB821.  Therefore, the NRA and CRPA urge you to contact the CA. Fish & Game Commission and voice your opposition to even more enhanced restrictions that exceed the scope and intent of AB821.  If we do not stop them from expanding the ban now, how are we going to stop them from banning Lead Ammunition state-wide?  Now is the time to act!

Next Meeting Location:
Yolo Fliers Club
17980 County Road 94B
Woodland, California, 95695

Click on this MAP LINK for driving directions and a detailed map to the meeting location.

Mailing Address:
California Fish and Game Commission
1416 Ninth Street
P.O. Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090

Phone Number:
(916) 653-4899

Fax Number:
(916) 653-5040

E-Mail: (Please include "Expansion of Lead Ammo Ban" in the e-mail subject line.)
Submit written comments, via electronic mail to:
John Carlson, Jr.,  Executive Director
Jon K. Fischer,  Deputy Executive Director - Regulations and Policy
Adrianna Shea,  Deputy Executive Director - Special Advisor to the Commissioners

Note: If you prefer to send only one email, you can send a single email to the Fish and Game representatives by using the special "ONE CLICK" email address that you can find HERE . By sending one email to the special "ONE CLICK" address, each one of the Fish and Game representatives (listed above) will receive a copy of your message (so it is probably a good idea to address your messages with: Dear Fish & Game Commission,).


Continue to monitor the latest legislative updates at:

Forward the link of this CAL-ERT to everyone you know:

Archived CAL-ERTs can be found at:

NRA Members’ Councils of California

Due to some duplication of efforts, some people might get more than one copy of this message. We apologize if this causes any inconvenience.

To subscribe, unsubscribe, or update your subscription information to CAL-ERTs, CLICK HERE and enter your email address. 

CAL-ERTs are provided as a free service to all gun owners and Pro-2nd Amendment organizations by the NRA Members' Councils of California. Please work together with the NRA and help once again defeat the misguided efforts of the anti-gun legislators and fringe groups by cross-posting this CAL-ERT via the Internet, newsletters/publications and hand-outs. The CALifornia-alERT system is operated by NRA staff and volunteers operating within the NRA Members' Councils Program.

<< Please cross-post & distribute this CAL-ERT >>
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TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Nevada; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: ammo; banglist; callegislation; condors; lead
If the antis can't ban guns, and they can't ban ammo, then why not ban the stuff you need to make ammo?

This isn't just a California issue. FReepers in the states surrounding CA also need to contact our Fish and Game Commission. The Kondor Kiddies have been trying to infest your states with these birds. If they can get lead ammo banned statewide here because of the extinct-but-not-quite-dead-yet birds, they can completely ban lead ammo in your states too.

1 posted on 06/15/2009 9:10:02 AM PDT by Redcloak
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To: Redcloak

Eat lead, socialist dirtbags.

2 posted on 06/15/2009 9:11:40 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU ARE A SOCIALIST WITH NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.)
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To: Redcloak

When the cops start using water pistols, so will I.

3 posted on 06/15/2009 9:11:45 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't have to say much.)
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To: Redcloak

Get rid of lead and switch to depleted uranium.

4 posted on 06/15/2009 9:14:36 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: Redcloak

I’ll give up lead if they let me replace it with depleted uranium.

5 posted on 06/15/2009 9:15:36 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: edcoil

The greenies are already causing headaches for the cops. The so-called green ammo they advocate can poison a shooting range by alloying with the lead that’s already in the ground. This makes it very expensive to process the soil to recover and reuse the lead. The green ammo turns what could have been a renewable material into toxic waste.

6 posted on 06/15/2009 9:15:48 AM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: 17th Miss Regt

you beat me by a minute :-(

7 posted on 06/15/2009 9:16:41 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: Redcloak

IIRC, it has already been done here in Jersey, to save wildfowl from ingesting spent pellets and getting lead poisoning. I’m not sure, as I have not hunted in a number of years.

8 posted on 06/15/2009 9:23:15 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: from occupied ga
I’ll give up lead if they let me replace it with depleted uranium.

When they do it will cost 10X as lead for each shell.

9 posted on 06/15/2009 10:13:38 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: Redcloak


10 posted on 06/15/2009 2:39:36 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: JimRed

Actually, lead-free shot was mandated by the Feds. However, the greenies have yet to show that the ban on lead for waterfowling has had any effect on blood lead levels in waterfowl or hunters. Similarly, there has been no clearly demonstrated link between blood lead in condors and ammo. The “studies” presented claiming such a link have so many holes in them that they look like someone was patterning a shotgun with ‘em!

11 posted on 06/15/2009 7:20:13 PM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Redcloak
If a condor eats carrion and ingests lead shot in its gizzard it will die of lead poisoning.

I am against banning lead ammo, as it is the cheapest, and hollowpoint lead works great against humans; but am not at all against hunters using copper ammo.

Copper ammo works better (less jams) anyway.

We don't have enough predators and scavengers around anyway, why poison them with lead.

Most hunters, like myself, are conservationists. We want to protect and maintain nature because that is what we enjoy. Using copper ammo in hunting is just good conservationist practice for maintaining our wildlife.

12 posted on 06/15/2009 7:27:43 PM PDT by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream
There's one problem with your theory: Metallic lead is insoluble in condors.

In order for the lead to enter the animal's blood stream, it must dissolve first. Metallic lead doesn't dissolve in the blood-temperature hydrochloric acid of a condor's stomach. The HCl must be at 100°C to dissolve lead.

But funny that you should mention the gizzard. For those who don't know, the gizzard is where a bird uses sand, gravel, or other grit to grind up its food. The gizzard is a muscular organ that contracts around its contents and crushes them against the grit inside. When the gizzard contracts against soft, malleable lead, the lead is deformed. It then goes on to pass through the bird or is cast up with other indigestible debris. Copper, on the other hand, is much harder than lead and doesn't give. If the copper has a sharp edge, as is often the case in deformed bullets, then the copper will cut the condor's gizzard to shreds.

Also, copper is soluble in blood-temperature HCl. Copper's toxicity in birds isn't well understood, but it is toxic in high enough concentrations in other species. Until the toxicity in condors is understood, one cannot automatically say that it's OK for a condor to munch on copper.

Make no mistake: This isn't about protecting condors. It's about banning lead, and thus ammo, and thus your right to keep and bear arms.

13 posted on 06/15/2009 8:51:16 PM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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