Astronauts uncover long line of nicks on shuttle

Google News (AP) ^ | 5/12/2009 | n/a

[Pyro7480]

The Atlantis astronauts have uncovered a long stretch of nicks on their space shuttle, the result of launch debris.

They were inspecting their ship Tuesday for signs of launch damage when they came across the nicks. Mission Control informed the crew that it's a 21-inch stretch of nicks over four to five thermal tiles on the right side of Atlantis. The damage is where the right wing joins the fuselage.

Mission Control says it could be related to debris that came off the fuel tank almost two minutes after liftoff.

NASA says the damage does not appear to be serious, but more analysis is needed.

Atlantis blasted off Monday on a risky repair mission to the Hubble Space Telescope....

[Pyro7480]

Pray that it isn't too bad.

[null and void]

ping

[nufsed]

Traffic congestion. They scratch you and never stop or leave a note.

[John W]

Second NASA shuttle poised for bold space rescue

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hFvX2oU2WeerEahqPJ-j1L7vbo3w

[NormsRevenge]

they have a couple patch options available, haven’t gotten to use any yet on a mission.

any pics yet? curious the location and depth and breadth of knicks or gouges.

[Minn]

t could be related to debris that came off the fuel tank almost two minutes after liftoff

Wonder if it was environmentally friendly material that peeled off. Serious white knuckle re-entry for the astronauts ahead.

[NormsRevenge]

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/

Minor tile damage found during Atlantis inspections

Engineers at the Johnson Space Center are evaluating a small area of tile damage on the forward part of the shuttle Atlantis' right wing where it joins the ship's fuselage. The nicked tiles, apparently damaged during launch by a debris impact around 106 seconds after liftoff, were spotted during an ongoing heat shield inspection by the Atlantis astronauts.

at first glance.. It's just a flesh wound, they probably won't need to even patch.. jmho. :-)

[FreepShop1]

I think driving without lug nuts is safer than flying in the Shuttle. I can’t believe we keep sending them up knowing the tile problem is so acute.

[Ramius]

Describing them as “nicks” seems to suggest that they aren’t very deep or wide. As opposed to say, “gouges” or something else. Hopefully it doesn’t present a problem.

[C210N]

result of launch debris.... Well, maybe it could be "hangar rash". Known to happen in many an aircraft hangar !

[hugorand]

I’m surprised they’re able to avoid all of the space junk that’s up there now once they’re in orbit.

[theDentist]

What happens if they then discover a series of nicks 36” long???

[Evil Slayer]

The Hubble repair will probably be aborted. The crew will probably focus on repair of shuttle via space walks. If not successful, the rescue shuttle will be sent up. Transfer of crew to rescue shuttle and back home. Atlantis will be left as a museum piece in space.

[txroadkill]

I guess it would be kind of cool to see Endeavor go to the rescue, but I guess that would mean that they would have to abandon Atlantis in orbit.

But what do they do if Endeavor has tile damage when it gets up there? Send up Discovery?

[Evil Slayer]

Discovery would probably have to be fitted with special restraints in it’s cargo bay to hold all the extra crew. I don’t think they would all fit in the cabin.

[DoughtyOne]

NASA says the damage does not appear to be serious, but more analysis is needed.

Deja vu²

[FReepaholic]

...The Hubble repair will probably be aborted. The crew will probably focus on repair of shuttle via space walks. If not successful, the rescue shuttle will be sent up. Transfer of crew to rescue shuttle and back home. Atlantis will be left as a museum piece in space....

Then again, probably not.

[edcoil]

If it if is minor, it would be good theater and drama to send the second shuttle up. Since neither is going to fly up much longer.

[Moonman62]

I think driving without lug nuts is safer than flying in the Shuttle. I can’t believe we keep sending them up knowing the tile problem is so acute.

The Shuttle has always been this way. It's a high risk design. If they used a fraction of the money for W's Mars boondoggle, they could design a new launcher that would put the Orbiter at the top of the stack. The Orbiter could be used for many more years to come, safely, and then a replacement Orbiter could be designed to put on top of the same stack.

[DoughtyOne]

"It's safety first, as ever," said NASA spokesman William Jeffs at Houston's Johnson Space Center in Texas.

Groan...

[Evil Slayer]

Then again, probably not.

I certainly pray you are right. I didn't intend to sound negative but only realistic considering how fragile the shuttle is.

God speed the crew of Atlantis. Protect them from harm and allow them to complete their mission and return SAFELY to earth.

[NormsRevenge]

Now now,, everytime you launch a shuttle , a glacier melts. :-)

[CougarGA7]

Figures. I tried to park my shuttle in a safe orbit and some a$$**** keys it.

[Frantzie]

Maybe they could try to fly the damaged one to the moon.

Since the Germans retired - NASA has become the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac of space. Privatize space.

[DoughtyOne]

I’m quite capable of criticizing Bush, but the mere mention of his name in this context bothers me. This is a nineteen sixties or seventies design. Bush wasn’t responsible for any of this. And just because he set new goals, it doesn’t mean he suddenly becomes responsible for all the poor decisions made in the past.

It doesn’t make sense to me to completely redesign a launch system for a craft at the very end of it’s life expectancy.

[txroadkill]

I'm sure the rescue shuttle would only be crewed by the CDR and Pilot, but I don't think there will be a big issue with tossing in a couple of extra seats, Story Musgrave rode through re-entry aboard Discovery standing up because “he always wanted to do it”.

[Owl_Eagle]

They scratch you and never stop or leave a note.

In my experience, it's probably a shopping cart in the Target parking lot. Maybe one of the astronaut's wives was driving it.

[txroadkill]

Maybe they could try to fly the damaged one to the moon.

Maybe they can get Tommy Lee Jones to do it.

[Moonman62]

It doesn’t make sense to me to completely redesign a launch system for a craft at the very end of it’s life expectancy.

First, I'm criticizing W for his Moon and Mars boondoggle, not anything to do with the Shuttle.

Second, what makes you think the Shuttles are at the end of their life expectancy? Each Orbiter only has a few dozen missions. The avionics and computers have all been upgraded, and the Shuttle still carries a lot of prestige.

[FreepShop1]

If they used a fraction of the money for W's Mars boondoggle, they could design a new launcher that would put the Orbiter at the top of the stack.

It's all moot anyway. King Obama has defunded NASA. When all the income has been redistributed, then and only then can we established the first ACORN office on the Moon.

[Moonman62]

King Obama has defunded NASA.

Really? Where did you see that? I do know he's put W's bad idea under review, which is a good thing.

[NormsRevenge]

what makes you think the Shuttles are at the end of their life expectancy? Each Orbiter only has a few dozen missions. The avionics and computers have all been upgraded, and the Shuttle still carries a lot of prestige.

—

structurally, if kept up mechanically , they could fly quite a few more missions. they are essentially a space truck, the lack of suitable launch options is the only thing keeping some of the fleet flying for many years.

I wonder if they are still flying HP computers, I remember all the fun they had in the old days. nowadays, laptops are capable of running a lot of the onboard gear.

I’d hate to see them go. too bad we have a gubamint that doesn’t have the foresight to do the right thing and build more of the right stuff on the launch pad.

[yazoo]

“Traffic congestion. They scratch you and never stop or leave a note.”

I always leave a note so passersby will think I am a good citizen. The note usually says, “I scratched your car. Bye”

[NormsRevenge]

Space shuttle Atlantis lifts off on a mission to NASA's Hubble Telescope from its launch pad at the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, May 11, 2009. REUTERS/Scott Audette

[Thunder90]

PING

[NormsRevenge]

NASA: Nicks on shuttle don’t appear to be serious

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090512/ap_on_sc/us_shuttle_hubble;_ylt=ApA57DK._lQX3rxRNS7sc3lvzwcF

excerpt..

Flight director Tony Ceccacci told reporters “it’s too early to tell” whether the astronauts will need to conduct a more detailed inspection of that area. Any additional survey, to determine the depth of the nicks, would be done Friday right before the second of five spacewalks planned for Hubble.

[DoughtyOne]

If they used a fraction of the money for W's Mars boondoggle, they could design a new launcher that would put the Orbiter at the top of the stack.

You may not have meant to diss Bush, but you did make it sound like you think a misdirection of funds was causing the continued problem with the orbiter launches.

It doesn’t make sense to me to completely redesign a launch system for a craft at the very end of it’s life expectancy.

First, I'm criticizing W for his Moon and Mars boondoggle, not anything to do with the Shuttle.

That may be what you intended to do, but you should keep the two separate if that's really your intention.

Second, what makes you think the Shuttles are at the end of their life expectancy? Each Orbiter only has a few dozen missions. The avionics and computers have all been upgraded, and the Shuttle still carries a lot of prestige.

These are the number of missions and date of first flight for each shuttle.  LINK

36 08/30/83 Discovery
30 10/03/85 Atlantis
22 05/07/92 Endeavor

NASA thinks it's time to take Discovery and Atlantis out of service.  That's good enough for me.  The Endeavor probably does have more missions in store.  The problem with that is that there will be no back-up.

You seem to think a launch redesign is indicated.  How long do you think that would take, and would it be advisable for just one remaining shuttle?  The cost and ticking clock on that effort leaves me thinking not.

My main concern right now is that Orion is going to turn out to be nothing more than a next generation orbiter.  If it does wind up being that, any real chance for easy frequent access and turn around to space will be thwarted for another 30 years.

[Moonman62]

NASA thinks it's time to take Discovery and Atlantis out of service.

Why? Are the airframes shot, or do they want to do it for budgetary reasons, or simply to make room for the next political project?

My main concern right now is that Orion is going to turn out to be nothing more than a next generation orbiter. If it does wind up being that, any real chance for easy frequent access and turn around to space will be thwarted for another 30 years.

Probably so. They keep scaling it back. My guess is it never gets off the ground.

I've said it before, the problem with the manned space program is that it's run by politicians.

[GraceG]

>>I guess it would be kind of cool to see Endeavor go to the rescue, but I guess that would mean that they would have to abandon Atlantis in orbit.

But what do they do if Endeavor has tile damage when it gets up there? Send up Discovery? <<

They can autopilot Atlantis back down to earth anyways, they would just need to transfer the crew and go home then be followed a few days later by the automated Atlantis.

[DoughtyOne]

I’m going to have to admit to thinking that we’ve needed to go another direction, for quite some time now. In the 28 years since our first shuttle launch we have had 126 (plus this one) missions. That’s a little more than 4.5 missions per year.

The goal should be executing that many (126) successful launches in a year. We need a fleet of vehicles that can be launched, execute a mission, return to earth, and be ready for another mission the next day. If that is not attainable right now, then at the very least we need something under a week turnaround at the very max, and a fleet of five to then orbiters.

My fear is that we’re headed into another boondoggle where we get three more orbiters, and another 4.5 missions per year out of them. Even at ten missions, that’s just design for failure for an earnest program.

[NormsRevenge]

I’d love to see a surface to orbit vehicle utilizing a different launch method that didn’t take so much work prepping and such. The problem will be one of payload.

RamJets, ScramJets come to mind.

with budgets limited as they have been for years tho, I don’t see a lot of change on the horizon.

[DoughtyOne]

If you want my opinion, I don’t think a craft closing in on thirty years of age, is a solid bet. I know the B52 flies in the face of that, but it isn’t subjected to the temperatures and stresses the shuttle is.

I don’t believe the shuttle was designed to go past the thirty year mark. Are the airframes shot? Perhaps not. I’m certainly no expert on it. The current situation does not instill confidence in the system. That’s for sure.

NormsRevenge just offered up an opinion that more closely backs your view than mine.

I don’t disagree that the space program’s main problem is politicians.

[Cementjungle]

Traffic congestion. They scratch you and never stop or leave a note.

Probably that baggage cart that eventually got sucked into the 747's engine over at LAX yesterday. Those things are worse than geese.

[Moonman62]

The real problem is there is not a purpose for even a single mission. The ISS is a money pit that should be splashed in the Pacific, and it would be cheaper to launch a whole new Hubble on an unmanned rocket, rather than send a Shuttle to repair it.

The only current purpose for numerous space missions would be tourism. Still, Shuttle missions are prestigious and they maintain our superior launching capability.

[DoughtyOne]

I’d love to see a surface to orbit vehicle utilizing a different launch method that didn’t take so much work prepping and such. The problem will be one of payload.

RamJets, ScramJets come to mind.

I'm a big supporter of the SSTO concept.  When I mention this, I generally get considerable criticism as if I were supporting the existence of UFOs or something.

My perception is that we benefit the most, when we push the limits the most.  Would SSTO be an insurmountable task?  I'm not convinced of that at all.  I'm certainly in no position to state that it is definately attainable though.

Whatever the concept that we finalize on, whether it involved drop craft or an SSTO, our nation is advanced the most by making this happen.

I personally believe our global standing is as contingent upon our success at this right now, as it is on the viability of the current armed services.

This is something we need to make happen.  And now is the time.  The next decade will see challenges in space.  Are we going to be able to meet those challenges, or are we going to opt to be a has-been nation?

with budgets limited as they have been for years tho, I don’t see a lot of change on the horizon.

We will always have money to spend on things we want to spend money on.  When we consider the overall cost of the space program over the last 50 years, it amounts to a very paultry sum.

[stefanbatory]

maybe they can get him to take his college roomate with him...

[DoughtyOne]

The real problem is there is not a purpose for even a single mission.

If you're talking about the incredible cost of lift these days, I would have to say you're not that far off with that comment.

Still, I do believe the status of our nation will be more closely tied to our ability to enter and inhabit space, than anyone realizes.

We need to cut the cost of delivering materials to space.  We need to make access a common occurance.

Just like opening up the West, the United States needs to open up and inhabit space.  Right now it won't make that much sense.

When we're able to enter space frequently, people will be amazed at how quickly space becomes a thriving industry.

The ISS is a money pit that should be splashed in the Pacific, and it would be cheaper to launch a whole new Hubble on an unmanned rocket, rather than send a Shuttle to repair it.

Did you know that the discovery that led to Pluto being downgraded from a planet, was facilitated using a ground based telescope?  I've also seen some ground based photos that came close to the photos taken by the Hubble.  Yes, the Hubble probably does a bit better for some things, but I'm not convinced it's the big deal we've been led to believe it is.  I've been a supporter of the Hubble all along, but I have found myself questioning it's true value from time to time.

The only current purpose for numerous space missions would be tourism.

The single most impactful thing that will limit what value access to space will present to us, is the creativity of the people who are tasked with devising cutting edge short and long term goals or projects.

If we can have hotels up there, why not condos?  If we're doing some research up there, why not support facilities?  Why not cutting edge agriculture, crops, animal life, and water recycling?

IMO, there will be a need for zero gravity facilities, and facilities that have artificial gravity as well.  People could work three days on, four days off, to avoid the ill effects of zero gravity.

A facility devised to provide artificual gravity by rotation, could have a core where near zero gravity would allow for transport craft to shuttle people to and from a zero gravity work facility.

I really do think we're on the verge of a new age here.  If we aren't the masters of this, we will wind up being the underlings of those who are.

Still, Shuttle missions are prestigious and they maintain our superior launching capability.

I believe the shuttle is becoming more of an albatros than a shining example of our future.  It's time to move on to the next best thing.

Further, I would state that the near term goals need to focus on the type of reality I am addressing here.

This must be the next stop, and the equipment we devise must be suited to making this a reality.  Wasting money on anything that doesn't will just slow us down.

[BlueStateBlues]

Not bad at all. Next is the exciting launch of the Herschel and the Planck Space Observatories on Thursday.

[DoughtyOne]

I forgot to address the space station. If anyone wants me to support something in space, it better have the name of the United States Department of Space on the side of it, or they can dump it in the Pacific. No argument there! International my arse...

As for private industry, their additions should be labeled according to who owns the thing. No problem there.