Is Java as we know it doomed?

InfoWorld ^ | 4.21.09 | Paul Krill

[libh8er]

In what cases does java execute faster than C++? Cuz I aint buying it. Not by a long shot.

This is from the wikipedia article on Java vs C++ performance. Also check references 7 and 8.

[PapaBear3625]

Oracle kills MySQL and acquires a hardware/server division. Java is incidental.

Or Oracle makes MySQL more compatible with Oracle DB, and puts a ceiling on MySQL performance so that people migrate to Oracle DB as their performance needs increase.

[libh8er]

That’s basically what I meant. MySQL as a free alternative to Oracle DB and comparable in performance wont exist. I wonder if it would be still “legal” to run earlier versions of free MySQL in production environments.

[Glenn]

If Java were a profit center, Sun might still be Sun instead of Oracle.

[libh8er]

But then Java might not be what it is today.

[Glenn]

But then Java might not be what it is today.

It certainly isn't what it will be tomorrow, eh?

[bmwcyle]

ping

[Hardastarboard]

If it was fast before Oracle arrived, it will run like a wounded dog once Oracle is installed.

LOLOL!!! Now I don't care who ye are, thet right there's funny!

[dfwgator]

Might not hurt to start learning Ruby.

[ozzymandus]

And yet Krakatoa was actually west of Java. That movie didn’t get anything right.

[Myrddin]

Aside from C/C++/C#, I also work with python for scripted tasks. Functional programming caught my attention via the Erlang language. It is a good choice for working on a multi-core machine with shared cache. Once a variable is "bound" with a value, it becomes immutable. That is important to ensure that other instances operate consistently when using the variable in a decision making process. Ericsson uses the language for telephone call processing switches.

[Myrddin]

I work on a project that started out as pure C++. The source code base was under 5 MB as pulled from an SVN repository. There was a cool moving map (tied to GPS) display that was desired by certain persons on the project. The code was written in Java. That became an excuse to reimplement the display as a Java application. Inside a couple of weeks, the SVN extract into the sandbox was over 450 MB. We had code that was a mix of Java/C++. It was necessary to bring in Eclipse (another 500 MB of disk space) and SWIG to build the damn thing.

The Java of 2009 is fatter and uglier than what I left behind in 2000. It's certainly the last thing I would put on an embedded system. Conversely, the gcc/g++ compilers continue to get better. The code is getting smaller and faster. Exactly what I want in an embedded system.

[libh8er]

Java is not best suited for graphics apps. The AWT can bog down a system and cause poor performance. Java’s forte is *server side computing* - business logic, security, database connectivity, messaging, remote computing, web apps..etc. As for embedded systems, I have no experience with them but I know Google Android is Java based. Google even publishes an API so you can write your own apps for your phone.The Blu Ray specification(BD-J) also calls for a Java implementation.

[Myrddin]

I have a couple Sony BluRay players. They work well, but the Java aspect causes start up delays for 1 to 3 minutes on titles with special Java features.

In 1996, I was using Java for server side CORBA. The JVM garbage collector made amends for the crappy state of CORBA code at the time. The C++ versions leaked memory. Java did too, but had a means to clean up. In 1998, I joined a project in progress. It was a giant applet with Oracle stored procedures for the back-end data. It performed terribly on the Netscape browser. I found a nice profiling tool and discovered most of the problem to be handling of memory by the garbage collector. I ported the applet to run on Microsoft's JVM. It ran MUCH better. The MS JVM had a superior garbage collector. I further improved the code by eliminating thousands of "font" objects and replacing them with a fixed set of about 20 common font objects. That reduced the memory footprint and reduced startup time. Just as the new, fast implementation was ready for delivery to the customer...Microsoft abandoned their JVM. We were stuck with Netscape/Sun again. Barf.

[rudman]

I read through it - and I must admit - I was surprised. I had a few thoughts I felt like sharing after reading -

While it may be true that C++ is harder to optimize - I don’t see that as a valid point in a speed comparison. The proper use of optimizers and debuggers go a long way to dispelling those issues.

For C++ on a Windows/Linux platform, you should really go with Intel’s compiler. In my experience, it produces the fastest code. Comparing to free/legacy compilers just aint right.

I understand in theory the benefits Java could take advantage of in coming versions - but properly written C++ code can as well.

For anyone who has programmed both - especially for a Windows/Mac environment, or as a Web Service - the reality of the situation is that C++ outperforms Java, has less issues, and requires less overhead to maintain.