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To: Jonny foreigner
Simple. there was no benefit for most EU countries in a war with iraq. thats all.

Not picking on you, jonny, but those of us on FR have grown weary of Europe (in general) not shouldering their share of the burden...for decades. The average European government loved the cash our servicemembers added to the economy, and lessened the strain on their military budgets.

What thanks have we gotten for our efforts, at least since the Berlin Wall fell? Other than scorn, derision, and condescension, not a whole freakin' lot.

Please understand me when I say I truly loved every minute I spent in Germany. I entered not knowing a lick of Deutsche, and left with accentless near-fluency, the kind that engendered quizzical looks from those whom I had never previously met. The friends I made along the Mosel River, and in Northern Germany (specifically Todendorf and Lutjenberg) left me with so many fond memories.

Hopefully you can now understand the anger we feel when we're told "there was no benefit for most EU countries in a war with iraq".

I'm especially leery of Obama's foreign policy, and the rest of the world should be as well. He has proven an adeptness at throwing friends and family under the bus, when it's convenient to his agenda (i.e. his own grandmother, Rev. Wright, etc.). Don't think he won't do that to our allies at the drop of a hat.

34 posted on 04/04/2009 11:45:58 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (Don't blame me...I voted for Palin!)
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To: Night Hides Not

Not picking on you, jonny, but those of us on FR have grown weary of Europe (in general) not shouldering their share of the burden...for decades. The average European government loved the cash our servicemembers added to the economy, and lessened the strain on their military budgets....


not picking on you too. really not. but europe has become wary (in generall) on america too.let me add one thing. the standart european does not think he owns you anything. americans might think that they are responsible for our defence. well they might have been after WWII. but even if true (and i grand you that) what do you expect from the standart european right now? you are no longer responsible for our defence. the cold war is over.. for me i have never seen the cold war. those people who have fought for “us” have died away like the people who would be greatfull because of that. the standart american right now has not fought on the beach of the normandy. and the standart european has not fought on the beach too. so why be gratefull? do you thank the french every day because hundrets of years ago they helped you? i will thank you if you will actually do something for me. really. but i will not be greatfull because people i have never known fought against “my” people i have never known too. again i have no anti american feelings in generall. there are people i like and there are people i don´t like and i don´t give a rats ass if your passport says american, german, austria, french... or what ever. i don´t judge people because of their country.
i judge people because of how they behave. don´t get me wrong. there is nothing wrong to be proud of your country, but an american who tells me i should be gratefull because of something back in 1945 or what ever sounds so offending to me. because he and myself have not lived in this time. so you won´t get any credit from me untill you are for example 90 years old and you fought. even then i will only respect that you did this but nothing more. then again there is nothing like the “average” european. europe is not a political or socical union. there are many differences. the wealth differs from country to country. the people differ from country to country. you can´t generalize. for example a famous american sterotype about europe is without us you would all speak german. sounds good but i do speak german. so there is a difference whom you tell this. a citizen of england may feel more offended because of that like for example a german citizen.
and for the military you are correct i do agree to some point. europe does not share its burden (at least if “we” think that an “american” conflict is an european conflict too. but it it is not. fact is for example the US and the EU have total different goals and interessts on global stage. they have been more similar in times of the cold war but now they differ in most ways. yet we are allies. (and we are allies because we all represent “western” civilization against enemys who want to kill us all and don´t care about our nationality. they hate the “common” way of life (even if this way differs a little bit from country to country) we all live. but this is where the problems start. for example america does not buisness with iran. EU does buisness with iran. do “we” agree about their politics? well i guess no but we like and need their oil and the trade. on the other side does america agrees saudi arabias extreme islamic politics? well i guess no but you too back them and pump their oil. so “we” both may have some common goals (freedom....) but the other interessts differ. so if something is good for america it does not nessersary mean it´s good for europe too. same could be said the other way around.but then again do europeans hate america or americans. well the answer is no. we may dissagree on most things and we love to trash and sterotype each other but in times of real crisis we will allways stay together. believe me every one was shocked here in europe on 9/11 for example. no one thought you “deserved” this every body only thought OMG, OMG, how can we help you...


37 posted on 04/04/2009 7:23:29 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Night Hides Not

and let me add one thing about afghanistan. you did have the support of whole europe at the beginning. no one cared if you bomb them. no one called UN and said this is wrong. you did get troops, logistic, intelligence all you want from europe at the beginning. but then again as allways politics screwed it up as time past by. i´m not saying your or our politicians screwed it up but at the end they brought us into a situation like now.


38 posted on 04/04/2009 7:46:06 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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