Posted on 02/18/2009 10:45:41 PM PST by Steelfish
Indonesia shows Islam, modernity coexist: Clinton
17 Feb 2009 By Arshad Mohammed and Ed Davies
JAKARTA (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held up Indonesia on Wednesday as proof that modernity and Islam can coexist as she visited the country where U.S. President Barack Obama spent four years as a boy.
Clinton's 24-hour stay in the world's most populous Muslim nation underlined Obama's desire to forge a better relationship with the Islamic world, where his predecessor George W. Bush's policies were deeply unpopular, notably the invasion of Iraq.
Clinton, on her first trip as secretary of state, said she wanted to deepen cooperation between the two countries on counterterrorism, climate change and security.
"As I travel around the world over the next years, I will be saying to people: if you want to know whether Islam, democracy, modernity and women's rights can co-exist, go to Indonesia," she said at a dinner with civil society activists.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Shall we start a POOL, when does the next “9-11” HIT?
There is NOTHING modern about Indonesia
Apparently she thinks Bali is not a part of Indonesia!
Um, no it doesn’t. Indonesians are not free to worship as they please.
Uh, Bali is in Indonesia..unless they’ve move it..
Is she blind, stupid, or just naive?
This is not the Mideast, Bill.
If this is Kankle's showplace for Islam joining modernity, then she is either really stupid or very delusional. I suspect both are true.
Oops, HIL
She is also unaware of what is happening in the Phillipines.
These Dems sure do love themselves some Islam.
To be even a mediocre politician, you've got to have a taste for lying.
And remember; one of the Clintons supporters and business partners was from Indonesia. There is no reason to believe that Indonesia is against Hillary.
This would be funny if it wasn’t so friggin stupid and completely wrong in every way, on the most important security issue of the 21st century: the rampant spread of jihadism and sharia.
Doesn’t sound like the same Indonesia I worked in for a few months 15 years ago.
Opened and censored mail.
No more that 3 people getting together in a private residence (dorm room, apartment, etc.) without notice to the local police.
NO talking to the women.
Everything stops when raising or lowering the flag. (Just prior to my stay at the mining camp an Aussie and been beaten with rifle butts as he failed to stop his vehicle).
And on a lighter side - signs above the toilets requesting that they not stand on the seat and squat! (They were used to the hole in the floor/squat method). More ergonomic I suppose - but I still get to call it primitive.
GRRRRREAT FReeper comments BUMP! Another tainted, disastrous Obama cabinet pick.
Which one was the worst for the Muslim world I wonder? The 50 million he liberated in Iraq? The 20 million he liberated in Afghanistan? The thousands saved in Indonesia after the Tsunami by the U.S. military? The support given for an independent Kosovo? What a monster Bush was.
Merely evil. She is, after all, Her Heinous..
Zero in the company of his Neville Chamberlain appeasers.
Yep...they elected one as the president of our country.
My gawd....Is the Beast Islamic too?
Schapelle Corby
Well I am glad to tell you that all those things have absolutely changed, nothing like what you experienced is now the norm in Indonesia I have never experienced any of that and I have been in Indonesia for five years. Sounds weird what you went through, where were you?
A convicted drug smuggler, she would have faced the death penalty in neighbouring countries.
I find it strange that a nation which is the fourth largest in the world, the third largest democracy, a genuinely moderate Muslim state, a country which has been, and still is, one of the most consistent friends of the United States in a strategically important region, a nation which is in short everything the US went to war in Iraq to create, is given such a hostile reaction in Free Republic.
Folks it’s Indonesia, not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, given the choice I know which nation I would rather the US be friendly with.
I was at a mine site in Irian Jaya - the west part of the island of Papau New Guinea. I think Suharto was still in power at the time. And yes - a border area with a territorial dispute (hence the flag observance I suppose, no meetings, etc.). The censored mail was for pornography and the no talking to women was a muslim thing.
Odd though - the only two videos in the lounge was some old table top tournament and a campy women’s prison movie with lots of scantily clad prisoners!
Well - my experience on Irian Jaya soured me. And shortly thereafter the atacks on Christians in Timor. Of course that is also 11 years old now and times change.
***********************************
Commission of Truth and Friendship report:
Final Report of the Commission for Truth and Friendship (CTF) Indonesia-Timor Leste 2008
Indonesia was behind Timor atrocities, says report, Tom Hyland, Age, 2008-07-11
Indonesian soldiers, police and civilian officials were involved in an “organised campaign of violence” that prompted Australian military intervention in East Timor in 1999, according to a leaked report by a government inquiry.
The report is a major embarrassment - and potential test - for Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who is due to jointly release it with East Timorese President Jose Ramos Horta early next week. Its findings are likely to reignite calls for such a tribunal, by undermining longstanding official Indonesian denials of involvement in violence that claimed up to 1500 lives. The report says the Indonesian state bears “institutional responsibility” for atrocities including murder, rape, torture, illegal detention and forced mass deportations.
An Australian investigator has named Indonesian military officers responsible for crimes against humanity committed in East Timor in 1999, including acts of torture in which victims were forced to eat their own ears. David Savage delivered a key report to the Indonesia-East Timor Truth and Friendship Commission that was scathing of Indonesian authorities who have for years denied responsibility for violence that left at least 1400 Timorese dead. He said that in the north-western Bobanaro district, where he was posted in 1999, there were thousands of witnesses to the involvement of TNI (Indonesian military) members in attacks on civilians.
And those bombings in Bali were carried out by whom again?
Aha, so you were in a border zone in disputed territory, well that somewhat explains the sensitivity of the local troops. I would suggest that you would have found precisely the same reactions in countless similar areas around the world from Israel to Colombia.
I have never had my mail censored once while living here although my friends up in Singapore say it happens to them any time they attempt to import dvd’s and cd’s, funny how no one ever condemns Singapore for being an Islamofascist state.
I still can’t understand the generalised, almost Pavolovian, hostility to Indonesia however.
“And those bombings in Bali were carried out by whom again?”
They were carried out by a gang of terrorists who were ruthlessly hunted down by the Indonesian police and army, most of the gang are now dead, either executed or shot on site by Indonesian security forces.
A good result for our friends in democratic Indonesia wouldn’t you say?
East Timor was a territorial dispute which had diddly squat to do with religion and which was peacefully resolved by the democratic government of Indonesia over a decade ago.
I still don’t know what it is about Indonesia that gets so many posters foaming at the mouth.
I’m not so sure we’ll get another 9-11 hit soon. Perhaps the mooselimbs will allow “one” of their own to consolidate his power and chnage America into the 58th mooselimb state.
I can confirm your posts. I have visited >80 countries, lived in the USA, UK, France, and Spain, and in Indon for the past 26 years, and can unreservedly say that I would rather live here than anywhere else.
It may not be the most “modern” country around, but it is going forward, as opposed to one superpower nation that has taken huge steps in reverse recently.
Where you at? I pitch my tent in Tegal Rotan, Bintaro.
Ever been here?
My wife and kids worship at the beautiful new Catholic church ~400 metres from our house. My nieces do the same at a Protestant church a short distance in the opposite direction. My son-in-law and his parents do their Buddha thing in a nearby temple. There is a synagogue in Surabaya to cater to the handful of Jews there.
They are all Indonesians, and seem to be doing as they please.
A lot of people seem to think that all Muslim majority countries are exactly alike.
Iraq, for example, is relatively secular. Alcohol is leagal here, women are not required to cover themselves (unless her family dictates it, but you don't even see too much of that) and pork is sold in some local butcher shops.
Saudi Arabia is insane and Iran is much the same. Bahrain, UAE and Jordan are pretty western-friendly and relaxed. Kuwait is very conservative, but still nothing like Saudi Arabia.
I’m in Menteng (former home of the “One”). I get a bit tetchy at times about the way Indonesia is portrayed in the western media and in this forum usually by people who haven’t the slightest idea where Indonesia is! Lord knows the place isn’t perfect and there’s times when you wonder is anyone in charge but as you rightly point out that’s pretty much the case with any country in the world but I still am fond of Indonesia and I wish people would be more receptive to the many good points about this fascinating nation.
Rant off.
I especially like their modern attitude towards people of Chinese ancestry.
I’m two minutes walk from St Theresia’s church and school were hundreds of Indonesian Catholics are educated and happily worship daily without any problems whatsoever, the Angelus bells are ringing harmoniously with the Adzhan as I write. My next door neighbours are Christians as were many of my neighbours in my former home in the Tebet area.
Go to the Black Cat at the Arcadia in Senayan on Wednesday nights, to check out Idang Rasjidi’s trio. Best piano playin’ this side of NYC.
Showtime 21h45.
I have no personal experience of that and I dare say PunchaMullah could give greater clarity but the fact remains that yes modern Indonesia is actually making great strides in its attitudes to the local Chinese, we just celebrated the public holiday of the Chinese New Year a few weeks ago. Again there are underlying racial rather than religious issues with regard to the Chinese (I have no time for any anti-Chinese sentiments whatsoever) but these are no different to many other nations in SE Asia.
Irish, any chance? Me too .....
What antipathy there is toward Chinese Indons is very much akin to the anti-Semitism still extant, but more subdued, in the USA and Europe. The issue is neither racial nor religious, but rather economic.
The worst attacks on the local Chinese, in May 1998, were orchestrated by Wiranto and his hired thugs. Most Indons will grumble about the Chinese, but know that without them, the economy, and particularly the distribution system, will grind to a halt. Ipso facto, they are tolerated for their importance to the nation.
I couldn’t agree more; anti-Chinese sentiment in SE Asia is precisely the same as anti-Semitism in pre-WWII Europe that’s why I hate it so much, you only have to read history to see where this nonsense leads, thankfully Indonesia seems - I stress ‘seems’ - to be heading in the right direction, it’s an election year however and the economy is getting a hard time so fingers crossed and hope for the best but I hope we’ll get through the next twelve to eighteen months without too much trouble. We really don’t need another ‘98.
Yes Irish to the core.
I have spent the past week digging up the garden planting spuds, onions and carrots. My wife thinks I have gone crazy. Me? Well I keep watching the news and I just think it mightn’t do any harm to have a wee bit extra vegetables in the case of scarcity, maybe I might even get some chickens, there’s plenty of room in the garage once I sell the Mercedes. Can you suggest anywhere I can get a gun? I’ve sourced the booze supplies and I’m ok with that but who knows how things will turn out.
Hunger and Irish folk memories run deep.
You reckon spuds, carrots, and onions will grow in Menteng? Istriku says no way, too hot and the soil is not right.
I am a bit bewildered by your concerns over the food supply. Don’t worry about it, there’ll be plenty. Actually, I do not expect the “global economic crisis” to be that severe here, as Indons have been through it before, and seem to have emerged OK. The booze drought in Nov-Dec was quite disconcerting; had to take up beer again.
I’ve had guns offered to me by my brother in law (Customs man at Tg Priok), but I do not want one, as it would create more problems than it is worth. At times I think that it is the saving grace for Indonesia, that firearms are so hard to obtain. I do keep several bows, with plenty of arrows, and practice regularly in a vacant lot nearby. Further, I place plenty of parangs and baseball bats in strategic locations. But best of all are good walls and gates, which always make good neighbours.
islam is a retrograde force. It will be nothing short of a miracle if Indonesia manages to avoid slipping into the clutches of muslim radicals.
Guess it depends on where you live. I have a cousin and her husband in Indonesia who are in fear for their lives because they are Christians.
I am not hating on Indonesia, per se.
I have family there that cannot openly lead people to Christ. That is not religious tolerance. I did not compare it to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
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