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To: Publius
Many thanks for the ping. I am a major Gertrude Himmelfarb fan.

In this sense, the Reflections was even more provocative than it seems on the surface, for it was an indictment not only of the French Revolution but of the French Enlightenment,

It was an indictment of more than that. One reason that Burke was so vigorously attacked for the Reflections was that before he even got to criticism of the French he went after two English private clubs - revolutionary societies - that offered ideological and monetary support to the French revolutionaries and with whom, by a similarity of overall sentiment toward Enlightenment liberalism, his French correspondent (the Reflections is, actually, a long letter) assumed him in sympathy if not an actual member. Far from that.

It was unclear at the time and for many not so much less unclear now why Burke, a vigorous supporter of the American "revolution," should oppose the French one with equal vigor. The Reflections are, as a document, the answer to that question.

It might have been Burke, in the Federalist Papers, observing that “a man must be far gone in Utopian speculations … to forget that men are ambitious, vindictive, and rapacious.”

It was, of course, Publius and not Burke (yer a cynic, Pub') but I can think of fewer more accurate summations of one of the foundational premises of conservatism.

As to the nature of superstition and its relationship with religion I have two points. First, that this too must be judged with an eye toward Burke's own antecedents - his mother was Roman Catholic, his father probably a Protestant convert - and with respect to the degree to which the French Enlightenment was virulently anti-Catholic. The latter constitutes one major difference between the American War of Independence and the French Revolution that might account for part of Burke's different views of the two.

But all popular religion contains an element of superstition, if by that we mean a belief in dogma for which there is little Biblical (in the case of Christianity) foundation. It is a topic over which hours are spent in debate in the FR Religion Forum. For a radical Jacobin all religion, and specifically all Catholicism, was superstition; for a Calvinist, the Catholic church hierarchy, and so on. I'm guessing here Burke was more hedging his bets with respect to the reader than attempting to draw fine lines himself.

But central to Burke's views of both politics and religion was that it really didn't matter when one was confronting the overthrow of an established set of mores, that the latter had grown, by the time of consideration, to fill functions that were not apparent from the view of theory or dogma, and that their careless dissolution might be fraught with unintended consequences. It is there that Burke's genius made the step from the clear (even at the time) possibility that the dissolution of the strictures of the Crown might lead to chaotic violence, to the bold prediction that it was inevitable. As, perhaps, it was, but in any case, to take a Burkean approach to our own perspective, regardless of theory it did happen. Observation trumps prediction. We know that he was right.

And that's a problem for the theorists. It disturbed Thomas Paine enough to pen his monumental Rights of Man in reply. And with the greatest respect for Paine, who was probably as much in touch with the spirit of the time as Burke, he didn't really answer the principal objection of the Reflections, which was, shortly, that a tree is to be known by its fruit, not its seed.

7 posted on 02/04/2009 3:25:31 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
The latter constitutes one major difference between the American War of Independence and the French Revolution that might account for part of Burke's different views of the two.

The same goes for Mikhail Gorbachev. During the Eighties he was asked which revolution had the greater impact on world history. He chose the French Revolution.

There was an outcry in American conservative circles when he made that statement, but he had a point as far as the old Soviet Union was concerned. Bolshevism can be viewed as the poison of the French Revolution rising to the surface again in 1917. It took almost 75 years for the forces of civilization to overthrow it, and that effort dominated the 20th Century.

8 posted on 02/04/2009 4:03:34 PM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
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To: Billthedrill
I don't know if you have had a chance to read Himmelfarb's The Road to Modernity. In it she does a great job of casting the differences between the English/Scottish Enlightenment, the French Enlightenment and the vestigal/political American Enlightenment. A great read.

However, the best and most concise set of distictions in this century is Hayek in the fourth chapter of the Constitution of Liberty. I ran a thread about it once and virtually typed in the whole chapter by hand in order to do so, LOL.

It has always amazed me how infrequently Reflections is cited or discussed on FR as it is obviously the closest thing we have in the conservative movement to a founding document outside the Constitution.

9 posted on 02/04/2009 4:18:15 PM PST by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free...their passions forge their fetters.)
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