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THE VIEW FROM CHAOS MANOR (Jerry Pournelle - thought re the election)
jerrypournelle.com ^ | Thursday, November 8, 2008 | Jerry Pournelle

Posted on 11/06/2008 3:29:29 PM PST by Bobalu

I lived through Goldwater to see Reagan and be part of his kitchen cabinet. I lived through Clinton to see Newt become Speaker.

I lived through brain cancer.

I'll live through this, provided I can catch up with the work piled up in front of me, and now I have to go out and GET DOG FOOD, which is more important than anything else. We sure don't want Sable to go hungry! And I am getting my platinum subscriber list straightened out and in doing so found A REAL BUG in Outlook 2007 that is not in Outlook 2003. I also found several platinum subscribers I hadn't recorded properly even though I certainly had received the payment. My apologies to all those it happened to. Apparently my autopilot in July was worse than I thought it was.

The good news is that I have the energy to get all this work done. The bad news is that I have to do it...

So I am getting to work clearing my desk. Then we can get to work building a new political party. We'll have a lot of help from Obama, and even more from those that Jimmy Carter called "rapacious wolves." He was speaking of Democratic Party Committee Chairmen who couldn't even cooperate to divide the spoils. They helped build the Reagan Party and they'll help again. Only this time we have to avoid the Country Club elements like Bush I and Bush II.

National Security. Avoid entangling alliances. Do not engage in the territorial disputes of Europe (or the Middle East). Don't get into LAND WARS IN ASIA. Remember that the worst enemies of capitalism are capitalists, and the worst thing about capitalism are capitalists; capitalism is the most efficient way to grow the pie, but the very mechanisms that make it efficient expose the lot of us to dangers. See Adam Smith for more details.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bho2008; election; pournelle
A greate sci-fi writer's comments about the election. Jerry always has lots to say about politics and nearly all of it is spot-on.
1 posted on 11/06/2008 3:29:31 PM PST by Bobalu
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To: Bobalu

If Dr. Jerry would hang around club more again, and perhaps he will, now that the election is over, I’d go back. But that’s another story.

While his written viewpoints are very concise, like many, when it became clear whom our crop of candidates would be, he let out a groan, a pun, and a great sigh. First, because he’d be expected to defend a crop of mostly morons running for president, and second, because the cult of Obama cares nothing for rational discussion. Which makes it very hard to debate issues, when the other side simply won’t engage in any topic, instead talking solely about a cult of personality.


2 posted on 11/06/2008 3:34:10 PM PST by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
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To: Bobalu

One of my favorite writers.


3 posted on 11/06/2008 3:35:42 PM PST by razorback-bert (Save the planet...it is the only known one with beer!)
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To: razorback-bert

When he was writing Sci-Fi, that is as good as it ever was.


4 posted on 11/06/2008 3:39:13 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Bobalu
They helped build the Reagan Party and they'll help again. Only this time we have to avoid the Country Club elements like Bush I and Bush II.

We say this after every defeat, and then proceed to do the same damn thing.
5 posted on 11/06/2008 3:40:28 PM PST by mrsmel (That one is not my president.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
"When he was writing Sci-Fi, that is as good as it ever was."

Especially when he partnered with Larry Niven. Lucifer's Hammer was one of my all time favorites. Might be a good time to re-read it.

6 posted on 11/06/2008 4:13:48 PM PST by Jaxter (The United States of America July 4, 1776 - January 20, 2009 - R.I.P.)
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To: Jaxter

I liked, “The Mote in God Eye” and all the books associated with the “Universe” he created leading up to it.


7 posted on 11/06/2008 4:16:41 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Bobalu

This, and the “Reagan’s biggest mistake” thread made me think of Asimov’s Foundation and Obama as the Mule.


8 posted on 11/06/2008 5:01:43 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: mrsmel
They helped build the Reagan Party and they'll help again. Only this time we have to avoid the Country Club elements like Bush I and Bush II.
We say this after every defeat, and then proceed to do the same damn thing.
Yes, but this time they have incurred the wrath of the pope.

I expect Rush Limbaugh to threaten to go second party. If the alternative is trying to drag another McCain across the finish line, what could we possibly lose?

We should nail our own "99 theses" on the door - and solemnly assure the Republican Party that without responding satisfactorily to them, they cannot possibly ever win another election. Because the party will not have any appreciable conservative support. We just won't pretend that we don't see what we see. Not again. My list:

  1. Implement a zero tolerance policy for open primaries. The states establish the rules for primaries, all right - but any political party decides how many delegates each state shall have. And even whether or not any of them will be elected in primaries. If a state requires that primaries shall be open, the Republican Party must select the delegates from that state, if any, internally.

  2. There should be a large disincentive for anyone who is overage in grade to become a candidate for the nomination. People who have been around for 16 years since becoming a senator or governor without even becoming VP, simply do not win election and should not be nominated.

  3. Senators win election only when the opposition candidate is also a senator.

  4. And sitting VPs only win election if the sitting president is someone whose face belongs on a denomination of our currency.

  5. Anyone who confesses, or otherwise manifests, ignorance of economics is not qualified to run.

  6. Anyone who cannot stand up on his hind legs and tell the truth about his opponent - or at least nominate a VP who will - is not qualifed to run.
That is not an unreasonable list. Sarah Palin, for one, fits it; most Governors would.

9 posted on 11/06/2008 6:26:41 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

Yes, but everytime it’s election time again, we go all wobbly and partisan, and everyone says “we can’t let a rat win, we have to vote for the Pub, even if he’s soft on a lot of conservative issues, because the ‘rat’s worse”. In local and national elections, we do this. And it’s true to a point-it’s either the rat, or the rat-lite. Third party candidates have never been viable. Even the pubs who run conservatively, morph before our eyes once they’re safely in the club. They’re not “true believers” determined to fulfill an agenda, unlike most rats. What’s the answer? I’m about ready to vote straight rat now, just to tie up the loose ends. This would accomplish two things-put it squarely in their laps-at this point, they own it all anyway, it won’t hurt anything-and two, show the wobbly Pubs that we mean business, they won’t get our votes.

At any other time, it could’ve done damage (at least we told ourselves this) to vote for rats-now, since they have a lock on it all anyway, it would be more effective to punish the Pubs for playing with us.


10 posted on 11/06/2008 6:35:54 PM PST by mrsmel (That one is not my president.)
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To: mrsmel; Obadiah; Mind-numbed Robot; A.Hun; johnny7; The Spirit Of Allegiance; atomic conspiracy; ...
Yes, but everytime it’s election time again, we go all wobbly and partisan, and everyone says “we can’t let a rat win, we have to vote for the Pub, even if he’s soft on a lot of conservative issues, because the ‘rat’s worse”. In local and national elections, we do this.
And it’s true to a point-it’s either the rat, or the rat-lite. Third party candidates have never been viable.
That is correct - but you will note that I did not say "third party," I said "second party." The McCain Party is what is patently not viable; if the Republican Party insists on retaining that model it will be a third party. The only questions on the table then will be whether the Democratic Party itself continues to cohere in the face of the consequences of its own success, and how strong our second party can become. I think the RINO wing of the Republican Party will lose a lot of confidence as the consequences of this election play out.

If after 3 years of Marxist rule we still actually have a meaningful election again, it will be because socialism has discredited itself beyond the ability even of Judas Goat Journalism to deny it, and of the median American to believe it even to the extent that they continue to do. I got out of the market yesterday, finally. Obviously late, but there are still people who will buy and the time to sell is when you have a buyer. I find it difficult to believe that much of anything I sold will appreciate significantly without dropping even lower in the next handful of years. In that scenario the mass of people who realize that Judas Goat Journalism leaves crucial things unsaid will go critical.

IMHO this election has baked certain things in the cake. Among them are:

After that scenario has played out for a couple of years, we will see whether "Reaganism is dead" or not.

11 posted on 11/07/2008 2:08:28 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

BTTT


12 posted on 11/07/2008 2:54:47 AM PST by E.G.C. (Click on a freeper's screename and then "In Forum" to read his/her posts)
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To: mrsmel

We need a good conservative, yes there are still many out there, who will set the tone for his campaign and stick with it, polls be damned! Rather than political consultants and pollsters, the bane of every conservative, he should hire technicians and clerks to do the necessary field work.

Most of all he should say, “Screw the mushy moderates! Screw reaching across the aisle! Here is what I believe and here is why I believe it!

Join me in retaking America and returning her to what she was intended to be!”


13 posted on 11/07/2008 5:49:39 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
'IMHO this election has baked certain things in the cake. Among them are:

geopolitical disasters which will wrench our stomachs like the Bay of Pigs did in 1961. And worse.

Obama will find himself on a slippery slope which makes things worse and worse, and he will fail in one specific objective of his. The Alinsky objective of making change slow enough to boil the frog without causing it to jump will IMHO elude him because of the "butterfly effect."

The credit markets will continue to tank, and nothing he is willing to do will avail. Tax rate increases will cause tax revenue declines .

He will be forced to print dollars by the ton, and that will cause Carteresque inflation. Pensions and Social Security will continue at their same dollar levels, but shortages and inflation will eviscerate their value very painfully.

He will slash the military, but that will produce unemployed soldiers and idle defense workers. And the weakness of the country will weaken the dollar and increase the cost of imports.

"Wage and price controls" ("censorship of supply/demand information" would be the honest way to characterize them) will be imposed, but they will do the only thing that they possibly can do - cause shortages and unemployment.

Corruption "gaming the system" will be endemic. After that scenario has played out for a couple of years, we will see whether "Reaganism is dead" or not.

*MEGA PING*

14 posted on 11/07/2008 8:14:40 AM PST by T Lady (Palin-Jindal 2012)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
"Wages and price controls.....will be imposed, but they will do the only thing they can possibly do-cause shortages and unemployment".

We had wages and price controls in Canada in the 1970's. I worked at a steel plant and wages were frozen. The penalties for workers, unions and others who disregarded the freeze were 10 thousand dollar fines and up to five years imprisonment. There were other penalties for others, I think management, of a monetary sum up to 10 years imprisonment.

The department stores were allowed a mandatory 10% increase in certain goods. Indignant shoppers compared old packets with new ones and found often the prices had risen. Beryl Plumptre the bureaucrat in charge, said each complaint could be brought before certain authorities. One at a time.

Some department stores had over 5000 separate items listed. There was no way anyone could check in a comprehensive manner. Hardly worth anyones time to complain. The workers who got say $5.50 cents an hour, were joyfully kept at that rate by the management.

After a year they got rid of the controls, I believe. Plumptre had to put a lock on her garbage can. Jokers had been into it,curious about her life style. She did not suffer, of course

15 posted on 11/07/2008 9:06:39 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: Peter Libra
Ref: My previous post.

I checked and found that the wages and price control act in Canada took place between 1975 and 1978. In some cases, a slight increase in wages was allowed yearly. Employers were only to happy to enforce no raises, as their patriotic duty.

The control of food stuffs and consumer goods was virtually impossible. There were not computers and the immense volume of every day commerce went on. It became a nightmare- at least as I remember.

16 posted on 11/07/2008 9:19:19 PM PST by Peter Libra
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