Bishop Vasa: Pro-Abortion Candidates are 'Disqualified'

"Abortion needs to be in our country a defining issue and we ought not be afraid to make it a defining issue because when we do that we will have an end of abortion in this country."

All this talk is nice and all, but until the US Catholic Church starts excommunicating pro-abortion politicians, it means very little.

Thank you Nancy Pelosi!The U.S. Bishops are showing real leadership.Unlike President Clinton,Obama(the most anti-life candidate of all time)will not get a majority of the Catholic vote.

Any Catholic who support abortion is automatically excommunicated. It is considered a GRAVE sin.

Dear pnh102,

“All this talk is nice and all, but until the US Catholic Church starts excommunicating pro-abortion politicians, it means very little.”

I think I disagree with your view, here.

While I'd love to see the bishops excommunicate the whole damned bunch of pro-abort “Catholic” politicians, Democrat and Republican alike, I'm probably not very representative of Catholic laypeople in the United States.

We'll have to see where the bishops take things. We'll have to see what happens after Ms. Pelosi meets formally with the Archbishop of San Francisco, for the formal reason of receiving instruction and correction from her bishop.

We'll have to see what Bishop Malooly of Wilmington, DE does with Mr. Biden.

If, before the election, these bishops make clear that these members of their flock hold views and take political positions, with full knowledge and obstinately, that are in conflict with the Church's teaching on life, and furthermore, provide for some formal sanctions against them, no matter how mild, it will cause a modest political earthquake. If, for instance, their bishops publicly ask that these two to refrain from receiving the Blessed Sacrament until they publicly repent of their heretical views and political positions - even without formally barring them from same - these two will be entirely disgraced among serious Catholics.

If the other bishops continue to make supportive comments, as has Bishop Vasa here, as has Cardinal Egan of New York, as has Cardinal Rigali of Philadelphia, then the Church will have taken on the two most high-profile “Catholic” pro-aborts in the United States.

The impact will be stunning, even though the actions by the bishops will be well short of excommunication.

sitetest

Well said the Bishops have made a 180 degree turn in the correct direction since 2008.

I meant since 2004.

A group called call to action was officially excommunicated and yet many still attend church. Those who vote for abortion have already unofficially excommunicated themselves. That is how it works.

Nancy Pelosi kicked over the hornet’s nest with her FALSE STATEMENT about Catholic teaching......the Bishops have no choice now.....they did NOT want to get involved in politics per se, but she backed them into a corner.

already unofficially excommunicated themselves.

Make no mistake, a latae sententiae excommunication is "official".

Dear badpacifist,

“Those who vote for abortion have already unofficially excommunicated themselves. That is how it works.”

That is a theological speculation. You will be hard-pressed to prove it definitively from Canon Law, the Catechism, or other binding teaching.

In the Church's application of law, benefits are applied broadly and penalties applied narrowly. Thus, all those who knowingly, purposefully, and directly aid in the procurement of a specific completed abortion are excommunicated latae sententiae (automatically). However, it's a stretch to say that a politician who supports legalized abortion on demand is directly aiding in any specific completed abortion.

This is especially true in light of the fact that the application of excommunications latae sententiae must be made through a narrow interpretation of the law, rather than a broad one.

Now, one could otherwise argue that these politicians are excommunicated for heresy. Heretics are also excommunicated latae sententiae. However, one would need to surmount two hurdles to make that case. The first is that one would need to show that being a pro-abort politician is heresy. I think, personally, that that is the case, but my theological opinion + a buck or two will get you a cup of coffee. I'm unaware of any formal, official pronouncement by the Church on that topic.

But assuming that being a pro-abort politician is heresy, the next hurdle is that one must be a formal heretic to be excommunicated latae sententiae. Being a material heretic (unknowingly, unwittingly, or without obstinance, holding views that are heretical) doesn't get you excommunicated. Otherwise, everyone who had forgotten the particulars of the doctrine of transubstantiation from their catechism 40 years ago, and mistakenly mixed up some of the particulars with the heresy of consubstantiation would be excommunicated from the Church.

That means, pretty much, that some competent ecclesiastical authority would have to make the judgment that someone holds heretical views, knowingly holds them, understands the nature of their heresy and understands the true teaching of the Church, and holds their views obstinately, that is, in the face of direct correction by competent ecclesiastical authority.

Ms. Pelosi could wind up in this situation, as her bishop has summoned her to be instructed and corrected. If she refuses the doctrinal correction of her bishop, it would be difficult to justify failing to pronounce her a formal heretic.

But it's a more problematic thing to say that pro-abort “Catholic” politicians are excommunicated latae sententiae merely by virtue of their political position on the subject.

They are, however, whether excommunicated or not, very bad Catholics. And the bishops have already said generally, pro-abort Catholic politicians should not receive the Blessed Sacrament. What remains is for the bishops to grow a backbone and name specific pro-abort Catholic politicians and ask them not to come to Holy Communion.

sitetest

Thanks.

>>Any Catholic who support abortion is automatically excommunicated. It is considered a GRAVE sin.

Enough with the automatic! The bishops need to stand in the church door and publicly tell them they cannot enter.

These politicians want the Catholic vote without adhering to Church doctrine. All well and good, but they crossed the line - into the bishops’ territory - when they presumed to be theologians.

...I'm probably not very representative of Catholic laypeople in the United States.

But that's just it! You just nailed it.

It doesn't matter if your views are representative of laypeople or not. The tail has been wagging the dog far, far too long on the issue. If we cannot trust our Bishops to take a truly meaningful stand in support of church teaching--and by meaningful, I mean significantly more than some harsh public outcry--absolutely nothing will change vis-a-vis heretically pro-abortion pols. Nothing will change!

Dear grellis,

I think that it would be ground-moving if the bishops merely mentioned by name various Catholic politicians who should refrain from approaching to receive the Blessed Sacrament. Even if the bishops left the final decision to the individual politicians, I think that it would move the political geography tectonically if, for instance, the Archbishop of San Francisco, after meeting with Ms. Pelosi, were to issue this statement:

“I have met with Ms. Pelosi. While I respect her right to form her own conscience and make her own decisions, and I respect her intellect and capabilities, especially as a political leader, sadly, her obstinately-held beliefs about abortion and other right-to-life issues are not congruent with binding Catholic teaching.

As a result, her communion with the Catholic Church is badly impaired. She is objectively in a state of mortal sin, and she is objectively and obstinately holding to heresy.

“Therefore, for the sake of her soul and to avoid scandal to the flock of the Church of San Francisco, I have instructed her to refrain from receiving the Blessed Sacrament until she can be publicly reconciled with the Catholic Church.

“Obviously, I cannot prevent her from approaching for Holy Communion, and I do not want ministers of Holy Communion in the Archdiocese of San Francisco to make a scene should she present herself for the Blessed Sacrament, but should she receive, it will be unworthily, and her crime of sacrilege will be on her head and no one else's.”

Mind you, this wouldn't be what I'd do. If I were the archbishop, after meeting with her, if she didn't publicly repent her position, I'd announce that she is a formal heretic, and ask the pope to confirm the ultimate verdict of heresy, with the resulting excommunication reserved to the Holy See. And then invite all the other pro-abort Catholic politicians in San Francisco for their own little personal “talks.”

But that ain't gonna happen.

But if the Archbishop of San Francisco merely made the announcement I suggested above, followed by the Bishop of Wilmington doing likewise to Mr. Biden, and other bishops picking out one or two pro-aborts in their own dioceses to so discipline, I think that the effects would significantly change the spiritual condition of the Church in the United States dramatically for the better, and it would also improve our politics.

sitetest

Pelosi, Biden, et al have excommunicated themselves by supporting abortion.

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271 (618 bytes ) preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm

97%

2:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272 (580 bytes ) preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm

96%

3:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322 (290 bytes ) preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm

96%

4:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274 (554 bytes ) preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

Yes, thanks to Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden we have these bishops speaking out on the matter of life vs. abortion.

Updated: American Bishops who have spoken against Pelosi

Here is the complete list of American bishops who have responded to Nancy Pelosi's comments so far:

Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver was the first American bishop to respond
... Bishop James Conley, his auxiliary, joined him
Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington DC responded twice, first in a press release and second in a statement to The Hill. He has also appeared on Fox News, I am told.
Cardinal Justin Regali of Philadelphia, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities, issued this statement through the USCCB website...
... Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, chairman of the Committee on Doctrine, joined him
Cardinal Edward Egan of New York publised a strongly worded statement of his own
Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo issued a letter correcting Pelosi's claims
Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh and...
... Bishop Michael Sheridan of Colorado Springs have chimed-in
Archbishop Jose Gomez of San Antonio, CNA reports has added his voice ...
... Bishop Oscar Cantu, his auxiliary bishop, has joined him
Bishop William Murphy of Rockville has published an extensive letter
Bishop Edward Slattery of Tulsa has a detailed response
Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas has joined the USCCB's efforts
Bishop Gregory Aymond of Austin is on-board
Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston mentions the USCCB on his blog
Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando has written at length
Archbishop John Nienstedt of Saint Paul/Minneapolis challenges Pelosi's statement
Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, President of the US Bishops, has weighed-in
Bishop Robert Vasa of Baker, OR publishes in the Catholic Sentinel
Bishop Jerome Listecki of La Crosse, WI responds in a word document
Bishop Richard Lennon of Cleveland, OH will comment in his September 5th column (PDF)
Bishop Ralph Nickless of Sioux City, IA has one of the very best responses I've read
Archbishop George Niederauer of San Francisco has invited Pelosi to a "conversation"
Bishop Glen Provost, LA: "Catholic Church clear on when human life begins"
Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn: "Judging the Candidates"

{Last updated on September 10th.}

Notes:

Previous #23 has been removed. Bishop Joseph Gossman of Raleigh, NC is actually the bishop emeritus, and the new bishop, Michael Burbidge has not, to my knowledge, made a personal statement.
Previous #16 has also been removed, it was an erroneous duplication of current #13.
#26 was added September 10th, although he published his column September 6th

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Obama Doesn’t Want His Daughters Punished with a Baby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNzmly28Bmg

CNN on Obama’s Infant Born Alive Act Rejection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPZCXcTwZPY

Jill Stanek on Obama and Born Alive Infant Protection Act (MUST SEE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo

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http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/ObamaCoverup.html

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypDwNpgIUQc

Babies left to die!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo