Border Agents Who Shot Smuggler Denied Appeal (Ramos & Compean)

newsmax.com ^ | September 11, 2008 | staff

[kellynla]

EL PASO, Texas — Two former Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a drug smuggler and trying to cover it up have been denied a request for a new hearing.

The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans denied the request by Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean on Wednesday. The same court upheld the men's convictions in July.

No reason was given for the Wednesday's denial.

Ramos and Compean are each serving sentences of more than 10 years for shooting Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in the buttocks while he was fleeing from an abandoned marijuana load in 2005.

Aldrete was sentenced to 9 1/2 years in prison for his role in two seperate smuggling efforts later that same year.

[kellynla]

I said the testimony makes clear that Compean was aware that Aldrete-Davila was unarmed.

I'm asking you to support that statement with actual testimony. I have shown you testimony where Compean clearly states he thought Davila was armed.

And I would like to know too.

[wideawake]

If you believe that this drug dealer was unarmed hauling tons of drugs into the U.S.

He didn't haul them into the US. His assigned job fro his druglord was to drive a van full of marijuana from one point in the US to another point in the US.

Clearly he did not care about his cargo, since he ditched the van and ran without trying to fight to keep it.

From his point of view, a single drug courier is not going to be able to defend a van full of marijuana by himself from either police or from rival gangsters. All carrying a gun for him would have meant was an extra set of felony charges, not any realistic prospect of defending the drugs.

In any case, they were paying him to drive it - they were not paying him enough to die for it.

I see. So it was all a vast conspiracy.

The masterminds of this complex plot knew well in advance that Compean would tamper with evidence at the scene and attempt to cover the incident up.

Come back to earth.

[wideawake]

See that hump which is lower than the pelvis on the right of each person in the image above. That is a butt cheek.

I do not think that the "image above" is what you say it is.

Also, maybe I do too much running and stuff, but my butt does not sag beneath my pelvis - it pretty much ends at my hip socket.

And yes, I am aware of how bizarre this conversation is becoming.

[wideawake]

I have shown you testimony where Compean clearly states he thought Davila was armed.

Again, Compean has to say he believes Aldrete-Davila was armed because if he doesn't he is admitting to attempted murder.

My point, again, is that Compean's own described behavior and his description of Aldrete-Davila's behavior prior to the magical discovery of Aldrete-Davila's weapon - as gone over exhaustively on this thread - shows that Compean behaved as if Aldrete-Davila did not have a weapon until the magical moment which Compean now conveneiently remembers, and that Aldrete-Davila did not act as if he was armed until that magic moment too.

Basically we are to believe that Compean normally confronts suspects on the assumption that they are unarmed and that Aldrete-Davila completely forgot that he had a gun until the last moment.

No sale.

[AndrewC]

not slow down or stop to fire back at a group that you know must completely outgun you.

No one stated that he slowed down or stopped once he left the ditch, except for Compean when he testified about the wrestling just beyond the levee.

it was what happened after he dropped his shotgun (in either the Juarez or Compean scenarios) that would have been humiliating.

The shotgun was in or around the top of the ditch. I have been to the ditch. Had Compean fallen in as Juarez had testified, Compean would not have recovered before Davila was near the rivers edge. Ramos was entering the ditch just as Davila began his move to evade Compean. So Ramos had entered the ditch to cross and help Compean before Compean slipped or fell. If he merely slipped as he testified, he would have easily recovered and intercepted Davila since Davila was scambling sideways for a little while in the ditch to avoid Compean. On the other hand, had he fallen in as Juarez testified he would have been face down and head down on the slope of a slippery and deep ditch. Ramos would likely have passed Compean. That did not happen. Juarez lied.

Compean testimony(he threw the shotgun down as I said)

17 A. Well, with him in the -- inside the ditch, I had the
18 advantage. I had the upper hand on him. He was -- he was --
19 he was inside. I had -- I had more of an advantage, being on
20 top, on the outside.
21 Q. You were on the high ground. Is that what you're saying?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. You go down to one knee at the edge of the ditch.
24 What do you do -- what does he do after that?
25 A. I saw him go around. And he ran around and started
David A. Perez, CSR, RPR
Compean - Direct by Mr. Antcliff 159
1 climbing out of the ditch.
2 Q. In relationship to you, does he run left or right?
3 A. I believe he ran to my left.
4 Q. And so you've gone down on one knee. What do you do in
5 response to that?
6 A. I saw him get up. And once he started climbing out of the
7 ditch, I -- I recover- -- I was able to recover. I stood up, I
8 threw my shotgun down on the ground and ran after him.
9 Q. Well, why would you throw your shotgun on the ground?
10 A. Because I had a better chance of catching him.
11 Q. Isn't it dangerous to leave a shotgun laying around out
12 there?
13 A. There was already other -- I had already heard the other
14 agents there. And I figured they would cross the ditch, and --
15 and they would be able to help me. So I didn't feel the
16 shotgun was going to be a -- a threat.
17 Q. Why did you figure they would cross the ditch?
18 A. Because I needed help.
19 Q. And why did you need help?
20 A. I was trying to apprehend the suspect.
21 Q. Okay. Was there anybody else on your side of the ditch?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. So what did you do after he ran around you and you throw
24 the shotgun down?

and stop or slow down allowing a crew of men with massively superior firepower to close on him.

No one testified any such thing. But pointing a weapon at someone should have the effect of slowing that person down. That is exactly why the agents originally pointed their weapons at Davila.

What were his choices - if he turned he would lose speed or stop, giving the pursuers an advantage. They would also be motivated to fire on him with their superior firepower.

So it is your contention that armed fleeing felons never fire at their pursuers. Obviously you are not an officer.

If Aldrete-Davila really had a gun and really drew on Compean, he would have easily gotten off the first shot - and Compean would then have no need to steal evidence from the scene to hide his actions.

Hide his actions from whom? For all he knew the entire Fabens contingent heard the shots. They were at the scene when Ramos and Compean cleared the levee on their way back.

[Dead Corpse]

So you are taking the border jumping drug smuggler's word over the PB agents?

Nice... At least you don't pretend to be on the "good guys" side.

[AndrewC]

I do not think that the "image above" is what you say it is.

Sorry, evidently the site does not allow images to be referenced. Here is the URL for the image.

http://www.exrx.net/Images/Mechanics/SidePelvisMaleFemale.gif

Here is another try.

[AndrewC]

that Compean behaved as if Aldrete-Davila did not have a weapon until the magical moment which Compean now conveneiently remembers, and that Aldrete-Davila did not act as if he was armed until that magic moment too.

Well, tell me how much time Compean had to decide whether Davila was armed or not. As to convieniently remembering, Compean testified what he had stated to the investigating agents a year before the trial. Check the statement. http://www.dhs.gov/xoig/assets/OIG_foia_RamosCompean.pdf

Your explanation of Davila's actions are easily countered as I explained above. Davila knew he was surrounded by stationary armed men. That is an entirely different situation than one which involves armed men running in pursuit with no one ahead. Pointing a gun at someone tends to make them duck and cease pursuit.

[joe fonebone]

Here is the last paragraph, from page 3 of the governments response to this case:

Based on all of the evidence admitted during the two-week trial, including the lengthy testimony of both of the defendants, the jury of twelve citizens heard all of the testimony, judged the demeanor and credibility of the witnesses and unanimously found both defendants guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of eleven of the twelve counts alleged in the indictment, including assault with a dangerous weapon, assault with serious bodily injury, discharge of a firearm during the commission of a crime of violence and willfully violating Aldrete-Davila’s Constitutional, Fourth Amendment right to be free from illegal seizure, as well as obstructing justice by intentionally defacing the crime scene, lying about the incident, and failing to report the truth.

As my grandfather, a retired police sergeant, used to say “ There is nothing worse than a dirty cop”....and these guys were dirty, period..

[CharlesWayneCT]

Guilty of what? Trying to guard the border? Trusting their supervisor to file the correct report? Of not letting an international felon escape?

No, not guilty of any of that.

First, they did not guard the border. They first spotted the guy on OUR side of the border, already driving a VAN full of pot.

Second, they did not trust their supervisor to file a correct report, because they didn't tell him what happened.

Third, they LET the felon escape, as two armed border patrol agents let an unarmed man who was shot in the buttocks walk back over the border to Mexico, and then could not identify him to their supervisors.

The only reason that the international felon is in jail is because the Border Patrol made a deal with him to come back and testify, which allowed them to identify him clearly, and so when he committed additional crimes he was caught and convicted.

So no, on all of your "charges", they are innocent. If they hadn't hit the guy with a bullet,and if the guy hadn't told people who told other agents, a known drug dealer would still be free, and we wouldn't even KNOW about it.

[CharlesWayneCT]

It’s a lot easier to spin when a highly regarded Prosecuter, a jury of 12 peers, a good district court judge, and a set of highly regarded appeals court judges from a conservative court agree with you.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Actually, if Compean and Ramos had just managed to walk over an aprehend the guy after they crippled him, they could have put in away on charges with the drugs in his car.

But of course, that would have required them to admit they shot him, and also would prove he had no gun if they caught him with no gun.

So they let the guy limp away, and then were unable to identify him. Which, as you say, kind of made it hard to prosecute him for anything.

[kellynla]

“no sale?”

You may think this is some kind of game but you have made a lot of accustaions and I have yet to see you post on this thread direct quotes from the TRANSCRIPT where it says that Compean stated that he thought the drug runner was not armed.

Post the quote from the transcript

waiting...

[Dead Corpse]

and willfully violating Aldrete-Davila’s Constitutional, Fourth Amendment...

Which should tell you something right there. Or does the US Constitution now apply to foreign Nationals illegally in our Country?

[Dead Corpse]

So, at worst they deserved remedial firearms training to better hit what they are aiming at, but instead they are in jail on a bevy of charges that any sane legal system would have laughed out of court?

[kellynla]

make that “that the drug runner WAS ARMED”

still waiting...

[wideawake]

I have yet to see you post on this thread direct quotes from the TRANSCRIPT where it says that Compean stated that he thought the drug runner was not armed.

I never said anywhere on this thread or any other that Compean made such a statement.

You are living in an alternate reality of some kind.

[kellynla]

"The testimony clearly shows that Compean was well aware that Aldrete-Davila was unarmed" Post 84

Either post transcript documnetation of your accusation or move on...
I don't tolerate smear merchants on threads I post.

[wideawake]

The testimony clearly shows that Compean was well aware that Aldrete-Davila was unarmed

Thanks for making it perfectly clear that I never said that Compean stated Aldrete-Davila was unarmed.

I guess this is the closest to an apology I can expect for your earlier misrepresentation.

[AndrewC]

Here is the last paragraph, from page 3 of the governments response to this case:

Since you haven't provided a source for your reference, I don't know what relevance it is. The government in the form of the prosecutor will always justify their prosecutions. What you did fail to do was at least cite what the court of appeals did find.

The defendants were convicted for assault, discharge of a weapon in the commission of a crime of violence, tampering with an official proceeding, and deprivation of civil rights. We AFFIRM all convictions except those for tampering with an official proceeding, which we VACATE. We REMAND for resentencing.

From here

REVISED July 29, 2008
IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT
No. 06-51489
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Plaintiff - Appellee
v.
IGNACIO RAMOS; JOSE ALONSO COMPEAN
Defendants - Appellants
Appeal from the United States District Court
for the Western District of Texas
Before JOLLY, HIGGINBOTHAM, and PRADO, Circuit Judges.
E. GRADY JOLLY, Circuit Judge:

So what we can say is that in charging Ramos and Compean with "obstructing justice" the government was attempting to violate the rights of Ramos and Compean even though they had over a year to ponder the obstruction of justice charges. Ramos and Compean only had seconds to determine what Davila was up to.