Lemme Whack It Too!,,,Time For "Jr." To Take Out The TRASH!!
Posted on 08/21/2008 8:20:44 PM PDT by steve-b
NO one but posturing political clowns wants a conscript Military. Our military is the best in the world because our troops make a commitment to be there. We don't need mass ranks of cannon fodder for modern warfare. We need serious committed professionals. No serious sane Military professional thinks a draft would be anything but a stupid political stunt.
Exactly stupid you mean.
It will provide fodder to the kos crowd. It is only those on the far left who want a draft because they know it would destroy the military.
I am being sarcastic, I don’t want a bunch of fools in the military. Thanks for your service.
Except they would probably also draft the folks who don't want to attack anyone.
What are you talking about?
B Hussein O is desperately trying to turn these statements to his advantage and failing miserably!
Everyone knows the $5 million was a joke—in fact McCain even wryly remarked that it would be held against him, and the houses thing was also a non starter.
Just for the record. McCain is NOT in favor of reinstating the draft unless we are in all out WWIV.
He ignored her draft question and answered the rest of her question.
Here's my opinion on the draft issue. Firstly we ought not need a draft because enough young able-bodied men and now women ought to be willing to support their country. Unfortunately they dont. The volunteer force is a professional force and a deterent to be used as a political bargaining chip. However, as a democracy I dont believe we ought ever go to war unless there is a draft. If a draft is so unpopular then the war cannot be undertaken. If that means the end of freedom then we deserve it.
Now many of the armchair generals will flock in here saying how stupid a draft is, the pentagon doesnt want one etc, etc. Thats a bunch of hooey. The pentagon is filled to the brim with yesmen. These are the same people who said everything was going absolutely perfectly as we were getting hit by IED and RPGs daily. Then their story flipped 180 degrees and they said that the surge was brilliant, (even though mere months earlier they argued a surge totally unnecessary). Many of them blame someone else once they retire. They are the mere quotation marks around the current political position of the white house, which is fine, that's their job.
The girlscouts who pass for men nowadays would bellyache to no end at first, but a bit of discipline and a few incarcerations to set the example would whip the country back into shape. If the Army can train Iraqis to police their country we can train anyone to do anything. And that includes training cry-baby American draftees to dropsack and protect their country.
With a draft we could have invaded and conquered Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and Syria. We could have cleared the scum out of Lebanon and Palestine. Doing so would have scared Saudi Arabia straight. Egypt and Pakistan would be scared into policing their own. Islamofascism would be defeated and while there would still be chants of Allah Akbar, none would dare wave their fists shouting Death to America. And this all could have been done in the time it took for us to realize that a surge was needed. But not with 100K troops. And now Russia knows this.
Chill, Obama wants a civilian defence force as numerous and powerful as the army, that would require universal conscription.
Lemme Whack It Too!,,,Time For "Jr." To Take Out The TRASH!!
NJP
Unfortunately we now have a political party that will do everything it can to undermine and subvert any war effort for naked political advantage. Unless we want this country to become a police state I don’t see a draft as a possibility any more, no matter how much it might be needed.
There's actually two different options here.
When you're looking at an all volunteer military, it's basically contracting. You need to offer your employees a good deal to keep them in, or they will decide to leave. Most people need more than a yellow ribbon and a pat on the back to make a career of something, especially when they have other options.
With a conscript military, you're basically saying, 'Whether or not you like it, you're in the Army, and you'll get what you get.' Absent any geopolitical crisis that would get American society to support such terms, that's a non-starter. Most Americans only agree with the GWOT insofar as someone else is fighting it, and it doesn't interfere with American Idol.
Which leads us back to this non-story. All McCain was saying by agreeing with this woman is that he understands that the military has to be made more competitive in order to field the large numbers of bodies needed to sustain the GWOT. If it's not, then by default, we'd either lose, or have to resort to a draft. This is pretty much common sense.
You are 100% right. The day that Congress finally does away with 'Don't ask, don't tell', the Pentagon will support gay rights so fast people will get whiplash. The ink won't even be dry in the Senate before the Army's sensitivity training PowerPoints are updated, and an army of stone-faced yes men trot out to proclaim the seriousness of treating homosexuals in the Army equally.
Same thing with a draft (or the surge, or the need for armored vehicles, or the insurgency). They'll argue from whatever point of view they think their bosses want to hear. The Pentagon would take a draft in a heartbeat if there was any political will for it. Arguing against it is just their way of sounding like they're in favor of whatever circumstance has offered. They'd use the same tone if Congress voted to replace all the M4s in the Army with spears.
"This is great news for the troops. Historically, the spear is a very reliable weapon, up to 63% more reliable than a 5.56 rifle, and does not suffer mechanical failures due to dust, sand or dirt..."
Disabled veterans, especially in this state, have horrible conditions... I think it is a sad state of affairs when we have illegal aliens having a Medicaid card that can access specialist top physicians, the best of medical and our vets can’t even get to a doctor.
I am a disabled veteran, I don’t know who nor what this woman is talking about.
More like a story based on an obvious fabrication. Tragi-comical thing is, a substantial fraction of the population doesn't discern the disconnect, and will wrongly conclude that McCain was agreeing with "there should be a draft rather than adequate care for veterans."
I assume you are in the Army by your name. I will be an officer in a few years. Thanks for your service.
That said, I disagree with your conclusions (except about the idiots in the Pentagon). On a personal level, I do not want to lead people who have no intention of truly being in the Army.
The lack of discipline in America today comes from the lack of parenting that this country has been displaying of late. I believe much of this comes from the fact that people assume more and more the government will just take care of us and parents feel less obligated to instill values. There are of course other reasons, many just as if not more significant, but I believe we put too much faith in the government.
As for the invasion of multiple countries (I’m guessing simultaneously, or at least in succession), sure we COULD achieve that, but at what cost? The costs of war are enormous and we already run record deficits with a constantly weakened dollar, not to mention the possible spike in oil from attacking oil rich countries.
The crazies in Islamo-fascism will never be scared by any actions of ours. they will always be willing to kill themselves to kill us. The more moderate members would probably put down their weapons, but I doubt they would be the ones willing to hijack our planes and suicide bomb en masse in the first place, IMO.
As for what the draft itself, I believe it goes against the very tenants of a free society. If we truly believe in freedom, then we shouldn’t allow a draft (except in the most dire situations) because the essence of a draft is government force. The stronger the government, the less free the people. I am proud of the all volunteer military and if we begin to lose enlistment, then we have a cultural problem that extends beyond the draft issue. In the case of a foreign war, I don’t believe you can (or should) make someone fight in something they don’t believe in. It’s different when the survival of the country is at stake, for instance a home land invasion (and the probability of that being successful is next to nothing), but I don’t believe it’s right to make people fight for a cause they don’t believe in.
Just my 2 cents.
When I was on active duty we had enough problems with a small percentage of volunteers, much less having to deal with a bunch of guys that didn't want to be there.
Well, i tend to agree, I hate serving with some fools that volunteered. However many were drafted during vietnam and even tho they didnt initially want to be in some became really good soldiers and lifers. Of course I think there should be compulsory 2 year service, but they might should sorta seperate them make them do grunt work get them up to e-3 or so if they want to stay in give them better options
Then don't join. If you think you wont be leading a bunch of whiners just because they volunteered, you're in for a shocker. Of course, most all of the guys are tough and will do what they're told, but the American soldier is not nor (according to most good history books) ever been an autonomous robot accepting commands and executing.
Think of it this way, one guy gets hijacked and thrown in a rollercoaster. Another guy waits in line and hops in the front seat. When its shooting down the big twister, both guys are screaming. You might notice some differences, but not enough to say, See, noone will ever ride a rollercoaster.
Another point, the Army is volunteer to get in, not volunteer to get out. If they had a 2 week notice system we could never fight a war. If the Army had 1 year renewable contracts they'd never make their quota. And additionally, the quotas have been maintained because the standards have been lowered and the ages have been raised.
As for the invasion of multiple countries (I’m guessing simultaneously, or at least in succession), sure we COULD achieve that, but at what cost?
Far less than we will pay. We will pay in trickling of blood. We will pay every day at the pump. We will pay as we shamefully bow our heads when our allies look desparately to us as Russia and China steal their sovereignty. And most tragically, we will pay with the lives of our children and grandchildren.
The crazies in Islamo-fascism will never be scared by any actions of ours. they will always be willing to kill themselves to kill us.
Does the suicide bomber work a 9-5 job for years saving pennies to buy their suicide vest? Nope. Someone buys it. Someone has money. That someone is afraid of death. That someone can and WILL be scared of us. But not if they see through the charade of our nightvision goggles and smart bombs. Not if they read the NYTimes. Not if they realize, correctly, that we do not have the will to beat them. Not when they know that if they are caught we will only lock them in jail and give them a fair trial. Not when they know that the more they chip away at us, the more emboldened their allies in Russia and China become. No, they are not scared of us, but they would be.
As for what the draft itself, I believe it goes against the very tenants of a free society. If we truly believe in freedom, then we shouldn’t allow a draft (except in the most dire situations) because the essence of a draft is government force.
If you want to learn a thing or two about government force, try not paying your taxes. The volunteer Army is paid in dollars taken from others by government force. Freedom is not anarchy. The very point of my entire argument was that if a draft cannot be implemented due to lack of political will, then the war cannot be fought.
If we had never gone into Iraq, Georgia would be free. If we had initiated a draft, invaded the most virulent Islamic countries and anihilated them in 4 years, Georgia would be free. Today, Georgia is not free because we took the worst choice, we fought a war half-heartedly. Seven years after 911, people still dare gather in the streets and shout Death to America. Seven years after Pearl Harbor and an entire WORLD War, the UN made the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The differences are staggering.
Don't know why I wrote so much. It is moot. There won't be a draft. The left brings up the draft just to shore up the anti-war movement while the right uses quotes from the pentagon to defeat the draft so they can continue fighting an unpopular war. I was really just talking about what OUGHT to happen, not what WILL happen.
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