Posted on 08/10/2008 8:55:41 AM PDT by bobbygardner80
Live Blogging the Opening Ceremonies Mark Starr 12:03--Well they can't keep a secret in this town any better than anywhere else. Li Ning gets the honor. He takes a giant leap--and the final lap around the highest wall inside the stadium to light the cauldron. Fireworks ensue. Good job, China. Let the Games begin!
11:54--The torch is in the building!
11:53--I should have said "doves" with quotation marks. Ever since there was an accidental holocaust of the "peace" birds at one ceremony, the dovishness is strictly symbolic. 100 young women in white gesticulating gently did their dovish best.
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.newsweek.com ...
I've read a little about goose-stepping and have found that there are a few countries that incorporate it into their military pageantry. I've also read that it came from Prussia. I've also read that the Chinese were enemies of the Nazi party during world war 2. For all these reasons, many on the net argue that I should not find it offensive.
However, like the swastika(which has actually been used for thousands of years), goose stepping has become a symbol of evil. Just like I choose not to name my children Adolf or Satan, I would like countries not to use the swastika on their flags and would like them not to goose-step during military pageantry.
This generation of americans has been brought up to believe in respect for other people's cultures. I think that we should do that, as long as those cultures deserve our respect. Silently tolerating the use of symbols that are commonly used to represent evil is not something we should do.
The goose-step opening ceremony at the Beijing Olympics was a slap in the face to the world. China will not respect our traditions, our culture, our sensitivities any more than it will respect the human rights of its own citizens. Ideally, the olympics would be solely about the games and the spirit of human brotherhood. However, from the begining they have served as a catalyst for discussion of politics and national policy. People who argue that we should ignore China's human rights abuses should consider that there are human beings suffering horribly over there right now, children being exploited and killed, adults being exploited and killed and Chinese protesters trying desperately to bring our attention to the corruption and oppression that they are suffering. Ignoring them is like walking through a concentration camp and admiring the beauty of the sun and getting angry at those who tell you to look around at what's happening to the people around you. While it is right to admire the beauty of the sun, there should be discussion and action to right wrongs that have no place in the world.
The Berlin games of 1936 was a truly spectacular olympic opening ceremony. The Germans walked in hailing Hitler there was inspirational music. It was crafted with the same flair for cinema that the nazi propaganda films would enjoy for the next 10 years. We can't watch footage of that opening ceremony without being facinated by the knowledge that all those people sitting in the stands would witness some of the most incredibly evil national programs the world has ever seen. Its amazing to think that a modern culture could embrace the ideals of the nazis and its scary as hell that it could happen again. When I watched the chinese soldiers goose-step around I felt similar to the way I feel when I watch footage of that 1936 Olympic opening, except I am more fearful, because I wonder if we had another World War or if there was a slow spread of oppression from China to countries around the world, would good still prevail.
Welcome to FR. The activism secton is for protest actions and chapter business.
And the slap in the face wasn’t the goose step (as horrible as that was) it was letting their soldiers touch the Olympic flag at all. That flag is a flag of peace and no host nation should be sending their army to handle it.
“Mao Uber Alles”!
I’m not sure what the exact rules are, but I have been watching the games since I was a little kid and I don’t recall ever seeing a military honor guard participate, much less one that was goose stepping.
Was there really a dove holocaust at an Olympics? I don’t recall the details.
Yep.
Who cares if the Chinese goose step? Lots of nations besides Nazi Germany also did it. The Buddhists still use the swastika and our soldiers now wear Nazi style helmets. It’s not some superficial trapping that makes a country evil or scary, it’s their actions. Slave labor, reeducation camps, forced abortion and a general police state are all real reasons to distrust and fear China. Goose stepping is not.
See post 2.
Don’t recall which games, but several of the released doves flew through the cauldron’s flames.
Didn’t end well for them.
The contradictions of the liberal philosophy.
How can I be a culturally tolerant person and simultaneously be culturally intolerant.
The Liberal's dogma of Multiculturalism in action.
After looking at the wikipedia articles on the last few Olympics, I found that there’s nota lot of info on who raised the flags, but I did find out that at Salt Lake the honor guard was made up of NYPD and FDNY, and at Sydney it was carried by Australians who had won gold medals at past games.
I agree. It’s just an old Prussian marching style. Prussia trained the armed forces of Chile back in the late 19th century and they still march in the old Prussian style and even have the same march songs to go along with them. I read quite a few German forums and they are not very happy with the total repudiation of their heritage with dates from before the Nazi period.
First off it is the Olympics, lots of cultures there, who can "respect" them all. The word "respect" means to have appreciation for difference in others cultures. Not to not offend, but to not BE offended. It is our political correctness that turns respect into enforced cultural blandness in the name of multiculturalism
Second, this is China and we are there in their house. It is up to us to not offend them. Let them be Chinese in China for heavens sake, they are different than us and I like difference.
Just my two cents worth. From a world traveling kinda guy viewpoint, multiculturalism is good, multiculturalistic lower common denominator stuff is the very thing feared by the author, goosestepping respect police.
I watched the Opening Ceremony because I knew it would be an impressive and entertaining spectacle, (and I wanted, mainly, to see the U.S. team and the other countries members happily celebrating their presence) but never imagined the Chinese would go so far as to incorporate soldiers in the event. It really was an over the mark/in-your-face tactic for them to have the goose-stepping soldiers there, IMHO. I had already decided not to watch any of the games based on China's stance on human rights issues. When I saw the soldiers, I was then certain I would not watch. I understand and appreciate our President being there to support our team, (and for whatever other political reasons he felt necessary to make his appearance) but I am content with hearing the scores, that is all, this time. Of course, I am just one person, the Chinese don't care if I watch anyway.
I think this is the biggest flaw in modern Western philosophy and it defies the historical precedent. I believe China is showing us what the future world government will look like. China and Russia are developing this new system which will soon be adopted by Europe and then the United States. Quasi-capitalist economy ruled by socialist government, exactly what the left in this country is begging for us to adopt.
My sister-in-law is at the Olympics. She’s an official with the ISSF (International Shooting Sports Foundation). Here’s an email she sent to us Friday.
“Am recovering from the Opening Ceremonies! We left the hotel at 4:45 p.m. and returned at 1:30 A.M. What a show! The early part of the ceremonies was frightening and made some of us very uncomfortable. It was a show of might and strength. The military presence was everywhere - unlike any other Olympics I have been to (I think this is my 5th). The constant war-like drums and martial music made a very profound statement. After this statement, the doves appeared with the image of peace. Also later, the show became more entertaining. The lighting and production was outstanding. China did as promised - show us the best so far.
Our Chinese friends are very nice and supportive. When the U.S. Team (a huge representation) marched in, they clapped and cheered for them. The Chinese people have been and are very kind and helpful hosts. Only the best for the officials and teams. Our uniforms are beautifully tailored, including our bright blue blazers which are made of fine light-weight wool and came in a clothing bag that bests Jerry Lee’s. We sent in our sizes and each set was especially made for us. Of course, my shoes had to be exchanged for larger and some of the men in our group could not fit in their 5xl trousers (Chinese are a small people).
My first competition is today and we are in full dress uniforms, blazers, scarfs and ties, white shirts and slacks and hats. I am thankful that the competition today is in the 10 meter hall which is airconditined because it is hot. Last night the perspiration was pouring off of us. The only breeze was on the Chinese flag was continued to wave throughout the ceremony.
Must leave for the range. Will write when I can.
With love and affection,
Susan”
I was shocked that the military was there at all. Has that ever happened before?
Yes, the Chinese use the goose-step. Years ago I watched the daily flag-lowering ceremony at Tiananmen (sp) Square, according to my translator a very patriotic ceremony for Chinese (and I had to stand back they clearly didn't like having a Westerner up close). It was a little eerie to see them goose-step in and then back out.
Welcome to Free Republic.
It is still seen as a positive symbol in India -- I have a colleague there named Swastika.
I’m unsure...Olympic historian is not a title I can claim. There was probably military involvement at the 1936 games.
BTW, see post 24...someone who was at the Beijing ceremony wrote to a relative and said the military presence hasn’t been there for at least the last 5 Olympics. And in post 18 I noted that it’s hard to find info on who carried the flag at various Oympics, but at Sydney Aussie gold medalists bore the flag and at Salt Lake it was carried by NYPD and FDNY members.
Has your sister-in-law attended the Winter Games (to be at the biathlon events), or just the Summers?
If it’s only Summer, she goes back to Seoul in 1988.
If she is including Winters, she goes back to Sydney in 2000.
For crying out loud. It is a military style of marching that predates the Nazis going back to the 19th Century. Some people will really make a mountain out a a mole-hill over nothing!
I don’t think she’s been to the winter events. I’ll ask her which ones she’s been to.
Well, the swastika was never a symbol of prejudice before Hitler got ahold of it, and if it is pointing counter-clockwise it means good luck. If an honor guard showed up to carry the Olympic flag wearing red armbands with black, clockwise swastikas, what message would you figure they were trying to send?
Also, how many countries not run by totalitarian governments can you name whose troops do the goose step today or in the last 25 years or so?
Thank you in advance. If she hasn’t been to the winters, then the Olympics she hasn’t been at would be hosted by Canada, France, Norway, Japan, America and Italy. We know there weren’t any soldiers at our games, and “hyper-militaristic is not how I would describe any otf the countries on that list. I know for sure there were no Italian military manuevers going on inside the stadium at Torino.
It is a military march. Get over it! Write to their respective embassies if you feel so worked up about it.
The U.S. and the Allies took all the Nazi developments in aircraft and cruise missile technology and put it to good use. This included Nazi scientists too. Would you rather that they just completly destroyed the technology because it was developed under the Nazi regime?
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