Skip to comments.Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo
Posted on 07/28/2008 1:07:57 AM PDT by Dawnsblood
This brief history, based on authoritative published sources, is intended to provide readers with an objective and reasonably concise history of the hundreds of years of struggle between Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Interested readers are strongly encouraged to consult the sources cited for a much fuller treatment of the subject. At the end of the historical summary implications of what is happening in Kosovo for the global jihad and the eventual Islamization of Europe are considered.
History Prior to 19th Century
The earliest known inhabitants of Kosovo were called Illyrians by both Greeks and Romans. Albanians today claim to be direct descendants of the Illyrians. Serbian scholars claim that Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace. Tracing such descents is difficult but the people living in the region before the arrival of the Serbs from the North are likely to have some genetic relationships to Albanians, but DNA data would be needed to definitively settle the claim, which in any case is hardly germane to the current conflict. The region was conquered by Alexander the Great 300 years before Christ and became part of the Roman province of Dardania in the 4th century A. D.
Slavs crossed the Danube and moved into the Balkans by the 6th century. These migrations weakened the Byzantium Empire sufficiently that Illyrian speaking people, known to their neighbors as Albanians moved eastward from the Adriatic into the Kosovo region of the Balkans. Their language became known as Albanian and their culture became allied with Byzantium after the breakup of the Catholic Church into Eastern and western branches in 1054.
(Excerpt) Read more at lamar.colostate.edu ...
Is this accurate?
Nope. The “Albanians” are the remnants of the Ottoman Turks that held the Serbs under brutal occupation for some 200 years until the beginning of the 20th century. The Serbs finally defeated them as the rest of the ottomans fell, ending a 100 year war. The remaining “Albanians” were allowed to live, which was a mistake because they formed the bulk of the Nazi ss division that “the Mufti of Jerusalem” Hussiani had command over, which then went on to slaughter another 100,000 Serbs as well as the Jews in the region. They were of course defeated again, until Clinton, who bought into the fabrication of lies claiming a genocide against the Albanians came along and hammered the Serbs who were only expelling the Albanians, (backed by Iran with weapons and supplies) who were constantly launching terrorist attacks against them.
It sounds like Islamic history however. There were no Muslims before Mohammad, no matter how hard they try to claim there were.
It so happens that the modern-day Albanians have more in common with the Illyrians and Dardanians (the historical people of the Central/Western Balkans) than any other people currently there, excepting the Greeks. The toponyms (place names), culture, and lifestyle of true modern Albanians (read village dwellers, those not touched by the Ottoman incursion) match the historic (pre-Slavic invasion) residence of the Free people (Illyrians) and the Pear farmers (Dardanians) very closely. The unfortunate moslem aspect of Albanian history is a relatively late addition and as such, is a late source of Slav/Albanian aggression.
I agree that proper DNA analysis of the residents of the area would do more to end the Serb/Albanian homeland dispute more than anything else. It is interesting to note that Albanian, like Greek, is unique among the Indo-European languages in that it does not stem from another language within the family nor does it have linguistic posterity. It is also interesting to note that the current village dwellers deep in the mountains of Albania and Kosovo sport blond hair and blue eyes (similar to the Germanic tribes), unlike the Turkish-mixed stock found in the valley cities. These village people are also generally much shorter than the urban population and I suggest that they are the closest match to ancient Albanians.
The Serbs share Slavic ancestry with the Russians, Slovakians, Czechoslovakians, and many others whose ancestral homeland (as assessed by Slavic historians) is around the Baltic region, not the Balkans.
There is so much more to discuss, but I have to work too.
LOL 100,000. Yeah, just like when Cohen stated that Serbs may have killed 100,000 Albanians.
Why must people inflate numbers to such ridiculous ones?
All that matters is who rules Kosovo now. The USA. Anyone who wants it can try and take it from us.
“All that matters is who rules Kosovo now. The USA. Anyone who wants it can try and take it from us.”
Spoken like a shameless thief.
Like we “stole” America from the natives, and we “stole” Aztlan from Mexico. If we win it in a war, then it’s ours. I’ll tell you like I tell Mexico, if you want it back, you can beat us in a war.
Spoken like a real bully.
You’d make a great nazi, mister.
Now go play with your little army men.
Why don't you Serbs liberate Kosovo from the evil nazi Americans? Are you too cowardly to fight for Serbia's Jerusalem? When will you punish wicked America for soiling the Serb holy land with our unholy boots? Should I not hold my breath?
You are a sick individual.
Why are we there? What interests of ours does being there serve? How exactly do we benefit by being in Kosovo?
We shouldn’t have been involved in the first place. And if we had a president with real leadership qualities at the time, we might not have been.
” It is interesting to note that Albanian, like Greek, is unique among the Indo-European languages in that it does not stem from another language within the family nor does it have linguistic posterity.”
True, but it’s not 100% clear what language branch Illyrian was really located in. Albanian is Satem, or the Eastern branch of Indo-European. There are those who feel that Illyrian may have belonged to the Centrum, or Western branch. It’s still disputed where the Albanians originated from. There are those who feel that they may actually have been of Dacian and/or Thracian origins.
“It is also interesting to note that the current village dwellers deep in the mountains of Albania and Kosovo sport blond hair and blue eyes (similar to the Germanic tribes), unlike the Turkish-mixed stock found in the valley cities. These village people are also generally much shorter than the urban population and I suggest that they are the closest match to ancient Albanians.”
Among the various peoples who moved into the modern Albania region were Germanic Goths and even Slavs. If you think that the Albanians were pure Illyrian, I fear you’re basically just indulging in wishful thinking. Also, I suspect that the Illyrians may have been Dinaric in physical type.
“The Serbs share Slavic ancestry with the Russians, Slovakians, Czechoslovakians, and many others whose ancestral homeland (as assessed by Slavic historians) is around the Baltic region, not the Balkans.”
Actually, it’s probably more in the NW Ukraine, E Slovakia, SE Poland, and S Belarus region.
Are you really willing to see American soldiers die for Kosovo? I sure am not.
And the US does not rule Kosovo, any more than we rule Iraq.
2. I never said the Albanians are 100 percent pure Albanians. But there is reason to believe that they are probably the closest living relatives to the Illyrians, much like the Romanian language is the closest surviving relative to Latin (not Italian). This conclusion is based on ancient Roman and Greek texts that use toponyms and people names that can best be explained using Albanian.
When I said that I think the village dwellers of Albania are the closest match to ancient Albanians, I should have clarified that I was still speaking linguistically. To be more specific, the Gheg dialect spoken in the mountains of northern Albania and in Kosovo is the most pure form of the Albanian language. Unfortunately communism in Albania attempted to standardize the dialects and created a lot of unnatural speaking rules now accepted by the educated. Latin has had a similar effect on English grammar, making English somewhat awkward and confusing, especially by eliminating the use of noun declination (cases). I suppose the key to finding the most ancient form of a language is by studying the population that has been touched least by civilization.
3. You are correct that the Slavic incursions into the Balkans originated in the areas that you described, not in the Baltic region. In my first post, I placed the ancestral homeland of the Slavs in the Baltics. This description is synonymous with the Proto-Slavic culture, not the late Slavic culture of the 6th and 7th centuries. The fact that reference was being made to the Proto-Slavs should also be clear by the inclusion of languages from the several Slavic regions (Eastern, Southern, and Western).
In any case, I appreciate a good discussion with point/counterpoint for once on Freerepublic. I enjoyed reading and responding to your response much more than the “Serbs rule, Albanians suck” browbeating that usually shows up on these threads. We are all conservatives on this forum, but often that relationship engenders a level of close-mindedness, the same for which we disdain the left!
Hello again. I was finally reading through all the posts. I agree that we shouldn’t fight other people’s wars. That being said, the Balkans, and more specifically Albania, offer and important strategic location for the U.S. It takes a long time to develop relationships that allow those strategic locations to be exploited and we have to make friends before we get to have a picnic in their backyards. Albania and Kosovo have been “free” from communism for less than 20 years. We are now making good inroads with the Poles, 60 years after the fact.
“Until we find some sort of Rosetta Stone for all of these languages, much will remain mystery. Even more will remain speculation.”
We probably will never find it. Thus, we’ll never know for sure, either way.
“I enjoyed reading and responding to your response much more than the Serbs rule, Albanians suck browbeating that usually shows up on these threads.”
This is just my opinion, but I feel that Serbs and Albanians are both like all other groups of people...namely some are good, some are bad, and some are in between to various degrees. I feel that both Serbs and Albanians are mostly either good or inbetweeners, just like everone else.
“To be more specific, the Gheg dialect spoken in the mountains of northern Albania and in Kosovo is the most pure form of the Albanian language.”
And even then it’s probably not free from outside influence. The Tosk is probably influenced by Greek. In fact, I think that the Tosks are part Greek in background. THough I’m no expert. Then again, the Slavs among others no doubt left their genetic mark on the Gheg as well. And the Romans contributed their fair share, I suspect. Linguistics, too.
“Unfortunately communism in Albania attempted to standardize the dialects and created a lot of unnatural speaking rules now accepted by the educated.”
Ah, the benefits of linguistic unity. :-)
“In my first post, I placed the ancestral homeland of the Slavs in the Baltics. This description is synonymous with the Proto-Slavic culture, not the late Slavic culture of the 6th and 7th centuries.”
I thought that the Indo-Europeans originated somewhere in the Ukraine, and they broke off into several waves.
First to leave where the ancestors of the Centum speaking peoples, then afterwards, the Satem speakers spread out, leaving the Balto-Slavic speakers who separated and evolved separately, or at least that’s my opinion.
I would also add that the name "Kosovo" has been used for hundreds of years to designate that territory and the name, Kosovo, is Serbian in origin (Translation: "Field of Blackbirds"). Kosovo has no meaning or translation in the Albanian language.
The names of most of the cities & towns are also Serbian in origin, although the Albanians have attempted to Albanianize them -- "Pec" (Serbian) became "Peja" (Albanian), "Kosovo" (Serbian) became "Kosova" (Albanian) etc. Again, no Albanian translation of these names, just Albanian pronunciations.
"what most Serb apologists leave out: that the Slavs were intruders into the Balkans who pushed out or enslaved the indigenous people.
But there is also strong evidence that the Albanians came from Anatolia (today's Turkey), so in that sense, it may well be that both the Slavs and the real Albanian ancestors were "intruders" 1,500 years ago. So what's the statute of limitations on this kind of thing? How far do we go back?
"It so happens that the modern-day Albanians have more in common with the Illyrians and Dardanians (the historical people of the Central/Western Balkans) than any other people currently there, excepting the Greeks"
I know that this idea is part of the Albanians "marketing plan for Kosovo independence", but it is a BS version of "Albanian ancestry" originally promoted by communist Albanian leader Enver Hoxha back in the 1950's that even many Albanian ethnologists disagreed with.
I am not sure if anyone has caught the ironic double-speak coming from the State Department on Kosovo independence and Kosovo history:
To the Serbs, C. Rice says re the Battle of Kosovo:after all, were talking about something from 1389, 1389. Its time to move forward."
On the other hand, the Albanians are arguing a "Albanian ownership of the Balkans" from prior to 500AD (500AD!) -- and the State Department support them!
When did logic fail them?
kronos hasn't been on much lately. His back went out and the doctor told him not to sit at the computer all the time
You are the definition of dumb American.
Incorrect, that's more propaganda and wishful thinking. There is no archaeological evidence to even prove this hypothesis.
I am sorry to hear it. My best wishes to him.
At least be like the others and post something to back up your argument.
You might want to send some of your links to montyspython so he actually has a counterpoint to post when he responds to me.
I acknowledge that you like to argue based on some logic and evidence, and I respect that. But when you try to present a case that is effectively, "Bears DON'T poop in the woods", it really doesn't take much more than an, "Are you nuts?" from Monty (or anyone) to refute it -- no scientific or historical links necessary.
I will say this, Skenderbej, if the "sides" in this issue were "Serbs and Albanian Christians (especially Orthodox Albanians)", instead of Albanian Muslims, I don't think that there would have ever been "sides" or a conflict that escalated -- not just based on the outlook from the Serbs' side, but also the outlook from the Albanian side.
From my point of view, the Albanian Muslims have written their own agenda in the Balkans and unfortunately the Albanian Christians have (mostly silently) gone along with "the program", whether out of fear and intimidation -- or Albanian solidarity --or whatever.
Too bad, because I think that Serbs and Albanian Christians would likely have figured something out on their own. But because Kosovo became the real dividing line between Islam and Christian Europe and Serbs have always seen themselves as the Guardians of the (Christian) Gate, that neighborhood has traditionally been a bloody mess.
You brought up the point, not me, why don’t you provide the archaeological evidence.
By handing Kosovo over to the Jihadists, the US has supported the “Reconquista” of “Aztlan”.
Even a publik skool graduate should be able to figure that out.
Actually, our “dumb” Americans are much smarter than Chicago boy.
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