Posted on 07/09/2008 3:25:12 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I. The Basis for the Belief in the Messianic Kingdom
Premillennialists have often been criticized for basing their belief in a Millennium entirely on one passage of Scripture, Revelation 20. Because it is found in a book well noted for its high use of symbols, they say it is foolish to take the one thousand years literally. But that is hardly a valid criticism. To begin with, while it is true that the Book of Revelation uses many symbols, it has already been shown that the meaning of all those symbols is explained either within the Book of Revelation itself or elsewhere in the Scriptures. Furthermore, never are years used in a symbolic way in this book. If they are symbolic, the symbolism is nowhere explained. The mention of 1,260 days, 42 months, and 3½ years are all literal and not symbolic. Hence, there is no need to take the one thousand years as anything but literal years. The desire to spiritualize the text always places the burden of proof on the interpreter. Without objective proof it will result in a subjective interpretation.
It is, of course, true that the figure of one thousand years is only found in Revelation 20. But it is recorded six different times in this one text, and if repetition tries to do anything, it certainly endeavors to make a point. While it is true that the millennium (that is, one thousand years) is found only in Revelation 20, the belief in the Messianic Kingdom does not rest on this passage alone. In fact, it hardly rests on it at all. The basis for the belief in the Messianic Kingdom is twofold....
(Excerpt) Read more at pre-trib.org ...
I studied this very intensely about a dozen years back. I found that if you answer three questions with what is written, you can come to only one conclusion about the tribulation.
1 Who rises first.
2 When do they rise.
3 When is the last trumpet.
I didn’t go there but I’m assuming “pre-trib.org” must be a rapture believing site.
For those who are interested, the scriptural proofs that there is no such thing as an early ‘rapture’ removing Christians from the earth prior or during the Tribulation are monumentally stronger than the thin and actualy UNscriptural arguments for such a phenomenon.
This site has some of the best biblical scholarship I have ever found:
http://www.biblestudying.net/index.html
Here is their take on the fallacy of a pre-tribulation ‘Rapture’ written by an associate of theirs they agree with 100%. If you read this material and you still believe in a ‘Rapture’ .... then biblical exegesis means not much at all to you.
http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/index.html
you all might find this VERY interesting...I really like this guy. There is a part 1 & 2 about ‘confusion in the cemetery’ and he spells out, via scripture what happens when we die and when we go to heaven. If any of you watch it I’d love to hear your opinion.
http://www.amazingfacts.org/Television/AmazingFactsPresents/tabid/77/Default.aspx
From a post I made on another thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2043099/posts?page=2#2
Historic Reformed view on this topic:
The Coming of the Lord
http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/brown/brown_01.htm
The Secret Rapture?
http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/miscellaneous/fletcher_01.htm
The Rapture of the Saints
http://www.pbministries.org/Newsletter/2000/Jan/butt01_01.htm
Postmillennialists who deny the Rapture tend to do so on the basis of slipshod exegesis and circular hermeneutical principles.
Greetings!
I thought you might see this post.....
I gotta run, though.
For now until later,,,,,,
No way dude. Read the material. There is one resurrection at the Last Trump. You guys believe Jesus comes three times. Ain’t gonna happen.
Actually it is an awful doctrine. It has made Casper Milquetoasts out of millions of Christians. Instead of girding their loins for the Tribulation, a time when millions will be saved (once the silly ‘rapture’ people figure out they’re still here), the rapturists are all just waiting for thier express ride up to Jesus.
You are going through the Tribulation. Be a witness for Jesus. Like Peter. Did Christ tell Peter he’s have an easy time and that Jesus would call him home before it got too tough? NO! He told him he would suffer and die for Christ.
Get off this silly rapture kick and get ready for your beheading. Witness to others by your strength. Not some foolish escape plan.
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess 5:9).
In the natural context, this is not talking about the wrath of hell, but the "day of the Lord" mentioned in 5:2, i.e. the time of the Tribulation. Indeed, the return of the Lord Jesus to the earth at the end of the Tribulation is not depicted in Scripture as a time of rejoicing for saints, it is depicted as a time when the slaughter of the enemies of God will take place (Matt. 24:27-28), and when the Lord will return to work flaming vengeance upon them who have rejected Him (II Thess 1:8) If one interprets I Thess 1:8 postmillenially, then the only recourse is to say that this event has already happened, since Paul says that the Lord will also come to be glorified in his saints and admired of them - but he addresses it to the Thessalonians as if it were going to happen to them. The only logical understanding of this verse is to see that Paul was speaking preveniently.
There's nothing in the Scripture at all about all the Christians going through the Tribulation, to have the Lord return for them after that event. True, there will be Christians in the Tribulation - but they are people who have never heard the Gospel before that event starts (per II Thess. 2:8-12), and who get saved during the Tribulation, as we see in Revelation. Indeed, one thing that postmillers always miss is that the sounding of the trumpet is never associated with the end of the Tribulation and the wreaking of vengeance by the Lord when He comes to establish His kingdom. Contextually, postmillennialism just doesn't work.
you can come up with all kind of little unscriptural arguments about "Casper Milquetoasts" and whatnot, but it doesn't change the fact that you are Scripturally wrong.
Work NOW, for the night is coming when no man can work, Christ told us. Time to serve Christ NOW, regardless of what tribulations (even up to death) we may have to go through now.
Yeah, but the trick is, God more or less clues us in when something is not meant literally. A lot of people just like to take whatever conflicts with their theology as "not literal" so that they can rework it into whatever they want it to say.
Hey, check it out! The postmils are out, pretending like they’re spiritual Rambos, even though they can’t read the manual for the M-60 correctly!
I would tend to agree with you on that. Scripture, because it is given to us by God for the purpose of giving intelligible revelation to man must be interpreted through a variety of intelligible means. As the old saw goes, "If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense." Of course, if the plain sense doesn't make sense....
Sorry but I’ve read the arguments in depth and your position is nothing but wishful thinking based on misinterpretation of a couple of verses.
Tim Warner will put the knife in this flimsy carcass of a near heresy in short order.
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
If the anti-rapturists are wrong all we get is a pleasant surprise. If you are wrong, and you are, then we get a bunch of ill-prepared Christians not ready for the task God has set them IN the Tribulation.
12-21-12
Yup - they are deceived. Same as preterists who claim Christ already made His return. Heresy, I dare say - as opposed to dispensationalists who are mistaken but not, IMO, heretical.
btt
Very interesting stuff. A lot to digest. I still have a lot more to read. Thank you for posting.
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