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To: Dr. Sivana
If you are willing to make the state the primary educator of your children, and not the parents, you have already lost the fight.

Which fight?

I am offended that you put "rights" in quotation marks. The family is SUPERIOR to the state. The state does not ordinarily have the authority to force children into government "education" centers.

And the personal right on information and education of each kid is SUPERIOR to the right of the family to keep the control over its members.

If you cannot even stop honor killings, you are incapable of protecting your "way of life.

You have no idea. Are you Americans able to control every BS committed by your underdogs? To give you a example: Los Angeles riots

Modern secular schools are making the mess that is allowing the Muslims to gain a foothold in your country. Your country is trying very hard to make sure that nobody who would resist them is given the tools or the spine to do so.

Might be the case in your country. Nevertheless this is not so in Germany. German schools are not secular. They provide religious education (not obligatory - Evangelical Christians have the alternative to stay away). Due to the fact that practically all German Christians are either catholic or Lutheran such is easy. The lessons are usually given by clergymen and/or teachers who received a special tutorial from the two churches. Furthermore there is the possibility to give the kids into accredited private schools that provide a special (religious) program (i.e. Evangelical, even Muslim or last but not least absolutely no religion) but also a basement of education. I have two of my sons on a private catholic school that is operated by Jesuites.

Nevertheless there is nobody who is able to dictate us how we should operate our education system. Therefore we will kick the a*ses of "home schoolers" now and in the future since we do not understand the value but are well aware of the dangers. Different countries different attitudes. Live with it.

13 posted on 06/01/2008 4:33:46 PM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum!)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
Which fight?

If you deny the rights of Christians to educate their own children, because you are afraid of how some of your small Muslim population might educate their children. You have lost the fight. You are letting the Muslims dictate terms. If you don't think parents can take responsibility of the education of their own children, then you don't believe in a very basic freedom.

And the personal right on information and education of each kid is SUPERIOR to the right of the family to keep the control over its members.

That is the rational used in public schools to give the kids Planned Parenthood style sex ed. Frankly, modern Dewey-style education in the west no longer simply educates (when it was, home schooling was a trifle, allowed, but uncommon). If you grant the state a monopoly on what you call the dispensing of information, it will be abused. Perhaps you are the product of such a system, and cannot distinguish between a right and an abuse of a right. I have never meant to usethe U.S. as paradigm of perfection, only that we come closer to honoring the natural law on this one issue. Here, we have hordes of urban students whose bodies are in the schools and their minds are elsewhere. They are controlled by their peers in the gangs, school or no school. At very least you could prescribe a curriculum to the parents, and have them submit paperwork if you really want to as a first step. The CHristians you are jailing because you fear Muslims educating their children will probably cooperate for the most part (as the Amish do here). Evolution may not be taught to the state's liking, but that is not essential for citizenship. If your problem is really Muslims, you should come out and say it, instead of arresting Christians.

Are you Americans able to control every BS committed by your underdogs?

The article originally cited referred to red tape as the cause of the problems. The LA riots were different. However, I will glade cede that we have our own "red tape" problems. It is impossible to fire an incompetent teacher in New York state for instance.



Nevertheless this is not so in Germany. German schools are not secular.

My wife is Canadian, and the Catholic schools in Canada are completely dictated to by the state schools. Catholics (by papal teaching) are required to be the PRIMARY educators of children. The schools are to ASSIST the parents. Sometimes, you have a bad Catholic school system due to corruption/incompetence/social agendas at the hands of the local bishop/superintendent. (The Jesuits in partic ular have been known to have their own set of problems). Just as one has a right to use force to defend himself when the police cannot or will not do it, parents have the right/duty to educate their own children when the state/church school is not/wil not do it.

I'm not big on your vocational track system, though I will admit that in many ways German public education is probably better in most ways than U.S. That does not, and cannot take away the parents rights and responsibilities, which take precedence over the states. I certainly take St. Thomas Aquinas over Martin Luther and Kant on that one.

Nevertheless there is nobody who is able to dictate us how we should operate our education system.

Who is this "us" you are talking about? You are imprisoning otherwise excellent law-abiding citizens. Your laws can change. It is all negotiable. You have decided to come on An American polictical forum that is filled with home-schoolers and you are surprised that we think your anti-parent attitudes are wrong? It is you who will have to live with it.
14 posted on 06/02/2008 4:10:42 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
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