Posted on 03/03/2008 9:06:34 AM PST by BGHater
You are correct about Bush. There are many ways a nation can die; and while he's kept out the terrorists, with his policy of inaction on the border he's given tacit approval to the eventual destruction of the United States by a slow, sustained, insidious invasion. History will rank him only slightly above Carter.
They aren’t building the Hunter fence, that is the problem. They are doing whatever they please. I know they are not defeating two fences with a border patrol road in between in mere seconds.
In the past, Americans built nuclear weapons, sent men into space and to the moon, with little more than slide rules and determination. We have computers and superior technology and equipment now, and can’t manage to build a damn fence?
Wouldnt be long until the Mexican Government would be stopping all the illegals.. And the Drug trade would suffer an awful set back..
Couple of points:
1) People still found a way out of East Berlin.
2) The Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not to keep people out.
3) The border fence doesn't address the motivation for illegal immigration, just as the Berlin Wall didn't address the motivation for people getting out of East Berlin.
A fence can only serve as a stop gap measure. What we really need is a comprehensive immigration policy which addresses the motivations for entering the country illegally: a) large fines for businesses that hire illegal immigrants; b) elimination of government programs for illegal immigrants; c) a guest worker program for migratory workers that allows us to keep tabs on them and allows them a viable alternative to hopping the border.
Not in the foreseeable future. every wannabe president is on the same pro illegal page.
“We have computers and superior technology and equipment now, and can’t manage to build a damn fence?”
The answer to your rhetorical question (as I suspect you know) is that “we” could, if we wanted to, if we had the political will . . .
Although 70% of the American public—liberals and conservatives—have demanded real border security, we have three candidates from two parties `licking their chops’ as they look forward to granting a general amnesty (a “path to citizenship”) after token efforts to secure the border; e.g. `virtual fencing’.
In twenty—no, in ten years—the problem will have increased exponentially with, as happened from 1986 to the present, at least five new “immigrants” for each newly documented American.
Sorry about all the quotation marks, but we’re dealing with words used by the open borders lunatics use to describe this crisis involving the failure of our legislative and executive branches to secure us from invasion by enforcing our immigration laws.
As someone who lived four years in West Berlin, I can say without equivocation that fences do work. Of course, I am not advocating that we shoot people who try to scale the fences. We use fences to protect the WH, military bases, nuclear plants, etc.
Guest workers don't go home.
Yes, my initial impression as well.
Broached eggs on toast......
Make illegals climb fences, swim moats, trudge across desert, and fine and jail the people who hire them. Go after the user, and the product will dry up. I know it doesn’t work with drugs, but it will with the illegals addiction. Illegals will find work at home, and we will do just fine without them.
My point is that we need something more than fences. We need a comprehensive immigration policy. I think too many politicians in D.C. are using this (the fence) as a wedge issue and when we get down to the nitty gritty nothing will get done (as usual).
As someone who lived four years in West Berlin, I can say without equivocation that fences do work.
As I mentioned, the Wall was not built to keep people out, which I think is a significant difference between what a border fence, or most fences, are built to achieve. I don't think comparing a border fence to the Berlin Wall is a fair comparison on that basis; it plays into the hands of those who oppose it.
Guest workers don't go home.
We have migratory workers here in Texas. They come during the planting and havesting seasons and then go home. And they come here legally. We can do this with other workers as well, but it needs to be done in such a way that we keep tabs on the people who come over. If they choose to stay, then we can put them on the path to citizenship. Of course, that goes hand in hand with disincentivizing illegal immigration, i.e., punishing companies that hire illegal aliens and getting rid of entitlements for illegal aliens.
Obama, Hillary, McCain, Dodd, and Biden all signed the 2006 Secure Fence Act, which passed the Seante 80-19. Far from being a wedge issue, they all are using it as political cover. Go to Obama's and Hillary's websites and you will see that they favor secure borders. Of course, now it is the virtual fence that has the greatest appeal.
It depends what you mean by CIR. For McCain, Hillary, and Obama it means amnesty, i.e., legalizing the status of the the illegal aliens. To me, it is enforcing our current laws, eliminating birthright citizenship and the visa lotter program, going to a merit based immigration system versus a kinship one, and reducing our annual legal immigration from 1.2 million to 300,000.
As I mentioned, the Wall was not built to keep people out, which I think is a significant difference between what a border fence, or most fences, are built to achieve. I don't think comparing a border fence to the Berlin Wall is a fair comparison on that basis; it plays into the hands of those who oppose it.
I agree completely. You are the one who raised it, which is something the Dems do when discussing the issue. They like to cast us conservatives in the role of Nazis and Communists.
We have migratory workers here in Texas. They come during the planting and havesting seasons and then go home. And they come here legally. We can do this with other workers as well, but it needs to be done in such a way that we keep tabs on the people who come over. If they choose to stay, then we can put them on the path to citizenship. Of course, that goes hand in hand with disincentivizing illegal immigration, i.e., punishing companies that hire illegal aliens and getting rid of entitlements for illegal aliens.
Guest worker programs work well in theory, but not in practice except in places that employ draconian measures to enforce them like Saudi Arabia. The Germans understand what happens when you have guest workers who don't go home, i.e., the Turks.
The devil is in the details when you start disussing guest workers. Can they bring their families with them? How long can they stay? What work place rules, regulations, etc. do you place on them? What about their children who are born here and become automatic citizens with all of the rights, benefits, and priveleges that entails? I could go on and on. We already have plenty of guest worker programs that have at any one time several million people working here, e.g, H1B, H2B, Nurse visas, etc.
Yep. When I was Dir. Operations for the Texas Minutemen our AO started five miles west of Fabens (east side of El Paso) to Ft Hancock covering roughly 50 miles of border. We estimated there were about 25 “regular” crossing locations that are run like a business every night 7 nights a week. The only exception was when the Mexican Army wanted to use a certain spot to cross a load of dope. Each spot crossed a group of about 12 per night. Do the math and it comes to about 110,000 per year just on the east suburbs of El Paso. Then the same thing for the West side and you have a quarter million per year. Figure roughly the same for all the other major and mid-sized cities and town on the border and you get to 4-5 million per year really quick. That means the bogus number of “11 million” illegal aliens in the U.S. has been doubled just since the original Minuteman Project in 2005. A much more realistic number is going to be about 35 million strictly illegal aliens, with an undetermined number of anchor babies that are going to keep them here. Toss in the amnesty currently on the way from Juan Hussein Clinton, the chain migration should average about 4 to 1.
And that number is 180 MILLION. More than half of the current total population of the U.S.
Anyone care to guess just how much “assimilation” is going to go on then?
Anyone?
Unbelievable.
A federal government that was interested in sovereignty, protection of private property and protection of the lives of American citizens (real national security) would enact a strict border security program, penalize companies that hire illegals, and stop the welfare state magnet immediately.
Another of thse anti-American pro-illegal alien articles
Border fences DO WORK! That is the real reason for so much criticism of them....it works preventing mass numbers of illegals coming in
Anything else is just amnesty
From the article, it is clear that the strengthened portions of the fence cause the mass of crossers to “flow” towards the weaker portions. Unless you are prepared to take whatever measures are really required to enforce the border (as the East Germans obviously were), you are always going to have leakage because the illegal crossers can probe your defenses at relatively minimal cost and find the areas of weaker or weakest coverage.
This was also the case with the East German wall. The vertical concrete “Berlin wall,” which became emblematic in the West of the oppressive nature of communism was, in fact, only a short section of the much longer, much more conventionally constructed set of barbed wire barrier fences. IIRC, although attempts continued to be made in Berlin (sometimes with ingenious, spectacular results), most successful crossings occurred away from the hardened sections of the fence. Unlike the United States however, the communists were, in every case, prepared to kill in order to prevent escapes.
As I noted in my original post, we would rather let some succeed in crossing illegally rather than harm anyone. A sentiment, I note, that is increasingly NOT shared by the illegals and their enablers, the coyotes.
I am as anti-illegal-alien as one can be, but I don't suggest that it would be a good idea to indiscriminately gun down folks trying to cross or install land mines that will kill anyone and everyone.
Even the Germans were not successful in stopping 100% of those determined to make the crossing illegally. To suggest that we should become more like them to control our border is troubling.
We could easily go from millions coming in illegally, to thousands. That would be a vast improvement and would tickle me to no end.
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