Posted on 01/08/2008 2:18:32 AM PST by CutePuppy
Ballyhooed hydrogen fuel cells may have environmental drawbackWidespread use of the hydrogen fuel cells that President Bush has made a centerpiece of his energy plan might not be as environmentally friendly as many believe... Ozone depletion has been contained with international treaties banning and phasing out ozone-killing chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs. But the Cal Tech researchers said huge increases in the concentration of hydrogen in the stratosphere "could substantially delay the recovery of the ozone layer," even if a hydrogen economy is still decades away... Jeremy Rifkin, a leading advocate for developing a hydrogen economy, said, "When you move into a new energy source you have to assume there's going to be some environmental impact." Still, he said, hydrogen, as a replacement for fossil fuels, "is our hope for the future. We know we can't continue to burn fossil fuels because the planet is warming up. And we know hydrogen is where we have to head."
Jun. 12, 2003
My chem prof actually didn’t know what happened with the Hindenberg and when I explained it to him he was amazed. Mostly amazed to have somebody in his class who could do something besides parrot back his lectures.
Turkey Waste Will Power Electric Plant
1010wins | May 23, 9:31 PM | STEVE KARNOWSKI
Posted on 05/23/2007 10:31:23 PM EDT by Calpernia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1838813/posts
The traditional method is to manufacture it from natural gas. Only about 4% comes from electrolysis.
What surprised me in regard to the Hindenburg theory of the fabric dope being the cause was why nobody before the 1980's thought to look at the color of the smoke as a determining factor....
By the time this technology rolls out oil is 250 and it's synthetic replacement is 249.
I discussed this concept recently on another thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1951397/posts?page=7#7
In fact, hydrogen gas is one of the MOST dangerous explosive gases. Unlike gasoline vapor, which is explosive in air at concentrations of 1.4% to 7.6%, Hydrogen is explosive from 4% to 75.0%
In the open that might work, although the LEL of only 4% doesn’t leave much of a safety margin. In an enclosed area that is DEFINITELY NOT true. And the propensity of H2 to leak is the highest of ANY gas, since it is the lightest molecule in existence.
Also, Hydrogen is chemically a metal, and it tends to dissolve the surface of metal tanks, pipes, and fittings. This causes embrittlement and eventual failure of these parts, and makes distribution through existing pipelines impossible.
Hydrogen is currently distributed through existing pipelines. But if you meant it could not reasonably be distributed through existing gasoline and diesel product, you are correct. Not because it is hydrogen, but because of the pressures required to economically transport hydrogen in pipelines.
Really? Can you specify where any inter-city transport of hydrogen through non-dedicated pipelines? Of course you could build a customized system suitable for H2 gas (forget liquid hydrogen - too cold!) but in fact it would require an entire new infrastructure.
And distributing gas is VERY different from liquids. Pressurizing and depressurizing gases wastes large amounts of energy. I believe that the only practical way to use H2 gas as auto fuel would be by tank exchange, like the current propane model.
Hydrogen-based personal transportation is a boondoggle - a complete waste of money, resources, and time. The fuel of the future will be a mixture of light liquid hydrocarbon compounds.
I didn't make such a claim. I said hydrogen is moved through existing pipelines. There are multiple hydrogen pipelines in the gulf coast area moving hydrogen to be used in refineries.
Approximately 700 miles of hydrogen pipelines are currently operating in the United States.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/delivery/current_technology.html
And distributing gas is VERY different from liquids.
Agreed, as I said. I have been on the design and construction team for both.
Hydrogen-based personal transportation is a boondoggle
On that we agree. But for economic, not technical reasons.
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