Romney notes 'common creed' (First news account of today's speech at Texas A&M University)

Washington Times ^ | December 6, 2007 | Joseph Curl

[Zakeet]

COLLEGE STATION, Texas -- Republican Mitt Romney, running to become the nation's first Mormon president, declared in a speech this morning that he should not have to explain his religion, which touts itself as the world's only true faith.

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution," Mr. Romney said in remarks at the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum.

"No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes president, he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths," he said.

Speaking just 90 miles from where President Kennedy delivered a 1960 address two months before he became the nation's first Catholic president, the former Massachusetts governor said that he, like JFK, will not be beholden to church elders if he becomes president.

"Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin. ...

[Elsie]

 

I am not a Mormon, and I don't fear Mormons. I was raised Catholic. Maybe some Christians out to rethink why we are hated. "Be of my faith or be gone". It sounds similar to the Muslims.

 

 

For ANYTHING to trump the existing bible we have, it HAS to pass THIS test:

 

 

Galatians 1:7-10
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert (restore?) the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”  

 

If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.

 

 

 

 

If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

Be warned though, that this same Bible indicates that no matter how fervently you believe in Something; that does not make it True.

 

 

 

[JFC]

I agree with Rush.

The more I watch Mitt, the more I like him, his wife and family. He just might have won some people over. I am still on fense on who I will vote for but this speech makes me proud that Mitt said what he did.

[Swordfished]

But, you see, this is exactly the point that Bob Bennett made. Why have a speech that raises the question of his faith, if you’re not going to say something to address the concern that people have?

Bennett's plain wrong and if he said that I've lost a lot of respect for him.

Besides, I don’t need Romney to preach to me about religious freedom in America.

You're way to sensitive to believe it was preaching, and to YOU. It's not all about you. Religion, warranted or not, has come up as an issue in the campaign and Romney decided to address it, much like Kennedy decided to address it. It's not rocket science. In fact, all your comments could be applied to the Kennedy candidacy and speech and sound just as foolish.

Is he trying to say that because I reject his liberal positions that I’m a religious bigot?

Straw Man. Of course he's not saying that - have some common sense.

[Elsie]

 

The BOM is another gospel.

 

Ya think?

 

 

 

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

and...

 

THE SECOND BOOK OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 25

Nephi glories in plainness—Isaiah’s prophecies shall be understood in the last days—The Jews shall return from Babylon, crucify the Messiah, and be scattered and scourged—They shall be restored when they believe in the Messiah—He shall first come six hundred years after Lehi left Jerusalem—Nephites keep the law of Moses and believe in Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel. Between 559 and 545 B.C.

 

  23 For we labor diligently to write, to ^apersuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

  24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.

 

 

---

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and so forth

must contain LOTS of 'umbra'!

[Elsie]

God bless us all (no matter what our religious beliefs are)!

GOD's 'blessings' come thru Christ - no other.

---

 

 

 

 

"If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph"
--Brigham Young

(JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224).

 

---

---

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

---

---

 

 

[Swordfished]

Would you like to take this opportunity to insult everyone who hasn’t served?

[Elsie]

He tackled the issue head on. and slipped away before the questioning started.

[Elsie]

What an outstanding communicator.

High fives all around!!

[Leisler]

It wasn’t a speech to awaken and inform.

At heart, I think Mitt is fine. I just think he is neither well educated nor comfortable with Mormonism in a larger culture. Or maybe he is, but it isn't expedient to say. Mormons are still in a expansive, missionary phase. The implicit foundation of which is that others are in error, wrong and such. He’s between a popular hard place and a Mormon rock.

Lastly, I am led to believe that he is more than a Mormon parishioner. That he is an officer of the Church. This fact, amongst others, went unanswered.

[xzins]

Precisely. Bullseye.

Romney’s problem is that he’s been a radical liberal for the last 20 years except for these 2 years leading up to an election in which he needs the support of religious conservatives.

His changes appear for all the world to be a “conversion of convenience.”

I fully expect that Romney, if elected, would be a pro-abortion, anti-gun, pro-gay agenda, pro-tax, pro-spend, Rino Republican just like his rockefellar repub Dad, George Romney.

[Elsie]

All looks yellow to the jaundiced eye.

And if one is blind, he must trust his dog when crossing the street.

[Leisler]

Funny, Mitt wrapped everyone around himself. People he had never met, and now you are too.

Is this in the packet?

[Churchillspirit]

Mitt's speech was one of the best I've ever heard.

Agreed. I too was very impressed.

What a contrast between an obviously good family man and that sleaseball Clinton the dems are trying to push.

[Domandred]

Anyone have a link to audio by chance instead of transcripts? Heard bits and pieces on national radio news but from reading the transcripts I see they have been heavily edited.

[restornu]

Don’t you feast enough here on FR to bash Mormons to your hearts content most of the time with impunity every day 24/7.

Advisors always like to take the middle of the road that’s why they are not leaders!

[Swordfished]

Funny, Mitt wrapped everyone around himself. People he had never met, and now you are too.

You need to grow up. Is praising America 'wrapping it around you'?

There are other aspects of what America is than the military...things like business and free enterprise and government service.

[babygene]

“I’ve been with protestants at Mass frequently. Everyone of them has had the basic sense to sit respectfully (or kneel) during Communion. I have never seen anyone on line refuse Communion in any manner. I would consider such behaviour to be rude.”

But, but, but... He went to midnight Mass once, and he knows what he’s talking about.

BTW, if you were pushing your Catholic friends wheel chair it might be OK. It’s also not uncommon to see youngsters who have not been Confirmed going with their parent with crossed arms...

[Stars&StripesNE]

A lot of people say a lot of things that they know nothing about. You should have been smart enough to see through that...

Yup -- just like all the molested boys should have seen through that.

Children are vulnerable to those they are told to believe in and look up to. So, you're saying that at the age of 9, I should have been smart enough to go challenge my priest, in an era when respect for adults was demanded of all children.

One thing I believe now, is that my former priest is doing some serious time in hell for teaching hatred and intolerance. (if there is a hell)

[Elsie]

HMmmm...  I missed it the first time.

 

 

“It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it’s usually a sound rule to focus on the latter – on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.

.

.

.

“The consequence of our common humanity is our responsibility to one another, to our fellow Americans foremost, but also to every child of God. It is an obligation which is fulfilled by Americans every day, here and across the globe, without regard to creed or race or nationality. .

.

.

.

“Infinitely worse is the other extreme, the creed of conversion by conquest: violent Jihad, murder as martyrdom... killing Christians, Jews, and Muslims with equal indifference. These radical Islamists do their preaching not by reason or example, but in the coercion of minds and the shedding of blood. We face no greater danger today than theocratic tyranny, and the boundless suffering these states and groups could inflict if given the chance. “In that spirit, let us give thanks to the divine ‘author of liberty.’ And together, let us pray that this land may always be blessed, ‘with freedom’s holy light.

 

 I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

 

Mitt; I think you've flip/flopped here!

HERE is the foundation upon which your faith is built:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 

How do we now seem to have COMMON CREEDS???????

 

[xzins]

Religion, warranted or not, has come up as an issue in the campaign and Romney decided to address it,

That's exactly the point. Romney did not address it. He addressed patriotism and religious tolerance without dealing with Mormonism. If you think that America's concerns with Romney had to do with patriotism and religious tolerance, then you're wrong.

Those who are concerned with his religious faith are concerned with peculiarities of the Mormon faith. He did not put those concerns to rest.

They want to know if it's wise to put someone in charge of the nation who thinks Jesus is holed up with spirit wives on the planet Kolob.

He never should have brought the subject up. His advisors were right.

Most CONSERVATIVES, however, are wary of him for his suspicious conversion from liberal to "conservative" just about 2 years ago in time for this election campaign.

BTW, Bennett did say it, so you're going to be disappointed in him. I heard it with my own ears. He repeated the same thought more than once in the interview.