The Arabs' (and Condi's) view of "comprehensive peace"...
Posted on 11/21/2007 4:04:22 PM PST by F15Eagle
Reversing the earlier-held American position that the Annapolis conference will deal exclusively with the Israeli-Palestinian issue, the US has sent out clear signals in recent days that if Syria wants, it can raise the Golan Heights issue at the meeting.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters Wednesday that other disputed issues could be raised at Annapolis, including the Golan Heights. Indeed, one of the three sessions to be held at the conference's plenary session on Tuesday will deal with "comprehensive peace." Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern Affairs David Welch said at a press briefing in Washington on Tuesday that Syria had been invited to the conference and "if they come... we will not turn off the microphone for anyone." Syria has said that it would only attend the meeting were the Golan Heights on the agenda.
Welch said that the Annapolis meeting "represented an opportunity for all those who would like to make meaningful steps toward peace to come and represent their views. You know, we're the United States, we're affording a platform here for responsible opinion, and they're entitled to express their views and their national interests as they see them."
(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...
*sigh*
Sigh...yep.
Miss Rice, Mr Chamberlain would be proud!
So what do we get in return for letting Syria put Golan on the agenda?
Saddam’s WMD?
The handover of the remainder of Saddam’s inner circle? Maybe the handover of some of Bin Ladin’s inner circle? The expulsion and abandonment of all ties to Hezbollah? The handover of all officials connected to the murder of Lebanon’s prime minister?
What? Anything at all? or nothing at all?
Israel must never allow Golan to be negotiated while Syria and Iran continue to make war on it through proxies like Hezbollah. And any American government that supports Syria against Israel is unworthy of holding public office, whether they are Dem or Republican.
Yes this is important. Give up the Golan Heights and set the West Bank to an official islamic state and you set the stage for the next Arab-Israeli war to start right on Israel’s doorstep.
I guess its in exchange for all their help in Iraq and the GWOT [/sarc]. We are selling Israel down the river and it will not win us one iota of love in the Arab world. If anything, it will just be percieved as a sign of American weakness. On the other hand, maybe the Saudis wanted it in exchange for dropping the price of oil by a few bucks. Is my cynicism showing yet?
“Reversing the earlier-held American position that the Annapolis conference will deal exclusively with the Israeli-Palestinian issue,”
The flip-flop administration and it’s useless leader in the state dept, Rice do it again
State Dept needs regime change. :(
No kidding. They just as well run a wire from the Golan Heights to any target in Isreal the Syrians would like to hit and be done with it. They can just connect a bomb to the wire and watch it slide into the target.
I cannot believe how stupid our leadership is. Are we supposed to believe this is part of taking down the terrorists?
What happened to we do not negotiate with terrorists or those that sponsor terrorism. What a disappointment she is turning out to be.
No, no, no, no, NO!
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
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Well, that's why the US invited them.
I agree, the Bush attempt to find peace in the ME is straight out of Jimmah Carter’s play book!
We;re setting Israel where she will have no option but to use her nukes against advancing armies. The bad thing, is they’ll essentially have an foot-soldier army right next door. Not that they don’t already have it with the jihadists.
What next State Department? Tear down the wall which is so effective in holding out the terrorists?
fyi
"There she goes again
She's out on the streets again
She's down on her knees, my friend
But you know she'll never ask you 'puhlease' again ..."
[Velvet Underground "There She Goes Again"]
Condoleeza Reich is a Saudi agent. Israel must pull out of this conference at the last moment, or face disaster.
The Arabs' (and Condi's) view of "comprehensive peace"...
We have learned nothing from 9/11. We are stabbing an ally in the back to reward those who literally danced in the streets while the Towers fell. I am beginning to think we need a FReeper protest in Annapolis next week. Jimmy Carter could not have a worse Mideast policy if he took power today.
If Foggy Bottom had its way the entire country of Israel would be a few square miles. ...with no fence.
Next on Condi’s agenda should be return of four million paleostinian refugees to Israel
/sarc
From AP today: "The United States is inviting 49 countries, groups of nations, financial institutions and individuals to a Middle East peace conference it will host next week."
The more the merrier. More countries and "institutions" = more interests, more agenda items, more conflicts with other countries' agenda items, zero chances to agree on any of the agenda items by any of the countries. The meeting is designed for failure which is really a success for Israel and our status of "honest broker" for the cause of "peace in the Middle East" and creation of "Palestinian state" (if they ever really want it).
There will be no one with authority or desire to do anything of substance at that meeting. It's a charade, and everyone understands it for what it is, and just try to score political points. It would be an utterly useless enterprise except for for a couple of things - US keeps her street cred of main "peacemaker", i.e. the road to "peace" doesn't lead through anywhere except Washington; and it will also further undermine Olmert in Israel as the one who is willing to entertain, for his "legacy", giving in to "Palestinian" demands vital interests of Israel.
It's a win-win. In the meantime we are setting Abbas and PA as the only "legitimate" political power in "Palestine", which is not going to go well with Hamas, i.e. more internecine strife which is about the most productive result that can be imagined for a while.
Condi has been a lesson for me regarding expectations. When she didn’t sweep out the trash at Foggy Bottom and repeated Porter Goss’debacle at the CIA I was dumb-founded. I’m wondering if her supposed prowess as an USSR expert comes from the same place as Plame’s expertise...Legends in their own minds.
With respect, that's absolute nonsense.
The meeting is designed for failure which is really a success for Israel and our status of "honest broker" for the cause of "peace in the Middle East" and creation of "Palestinian state" (if they ever really want it).
History tells us of King Phyrrus of Epirus who gave us the concept of a "Phyrric victory" wherein the cost of victory is so great the victor is actually destroyed. The Bush Administration is well on the way to adding the variant "Phyrric diplomacy" to the historical lexicon.
It doesn't matter how clever or nuanced the "strategery" is if it is completely detached from reality...
Seriously, I read something about “right of return” the other day. I’m not joking. It’s dumbfounding.
Where’s that animated smiley of a guy banging his head into a wall over and over and over...?
Nothing surprises me anymore.
Israel just finished bombing Syria over a substantial target.
And now Condi is going to have Syria negotiate over getting the Golan?
If these bully tactics on hand over the Golan, Israel’s hard fought for high ground, to the Assad’s Damascus terrorist exporters who murder American troops in Iraq, with Iran’s ever willing assistance — the inevitable backlash will be felt in our worsening economy.
But that's just my opinion anyways.
I’m very concerned. These things do not bode well at all.
Reality is that this meeting is not going to produce anything tangible in terms of "Middle East peace", for several reasons some of which I already described. Reality is that Bush and Condi and everybody else at that table are not stupid and know that it's not even on the agenda, but the charade has to continue and this stage of the game has to play itself out. Getting 49 parties at one table could hardly make it easier to agree on or achieve anything, yet that's exactly what is being arranged. So it's not to be taken seriously, except political theater. Just something that has to be done.
After this "Annapolis" Pyrrhic failure, the entire subject can be set aside for a while (throwing arms in the air, "we've done what we could, we'll keep trying, it's important, blah-blah-blah...") - probably until the end of this administration, which will be a welcome relief to them and to us. As an added benefit, it will probably invite harsh criticism from Democrat presidential candidates and could flush them out on their plans for "Middle East peace" and exactly what they would demand Israel to give up in order to achieve that.
These articles have helpful hints (hint: questions in these articles are more interesting than the simplistic and presumptuous answers), if you accept the premise that Condi didn't just turn into an idiot after moving to State and still remembers and understands history and understands the simple "points of failure" in the articles. This is not "Nixon going to China" to divide them from Soviet Union, not quite "Reagan going to Reykjavik to say nyet to Gorbachev", but it's a play from the same high level book, it's not Diplomacy 101.
The Annapolis Fiasco
Condoleezza Rice's pointless Middle East conference.
Do you think Israel bombed the installation without clearing it with US, including Condi? Don’t you think that the virtual silence about the entire “incident” - from all sides - is not an “accident”?
The more demands are made of Israel to bring “peace” to “Palestinians, the more obvious it will become that the demands cannot be made and therefore, the piecemeal giveaway a’la Oslo is not going to happen or even entertained (due to obvious futility as other demands will not be met) and we are back to where we were yesterday - the wall is being built, settlements reinforced, “Gaza Palestinians” (Hamas) killing “West Bank Palestinians” (Fatah) and vice versa... life goes on, and Israel for a time is safe from Olmert’s destructive dreams of “legacy”.
I think you’re closer to the mark than CutePuppy is. I don’t see her views winning out here, but if nothing is given away during the conference, it may be a zero sum gain.
I don’t believe that’s going to be the case. I do believe things will be given away (by Israel of course).
Your Phyrric Diplomacy comment was a good one. I liked it.
Sounds nice but I don’t believe it. They’ve already given up Gaza, and we’ve seen it become a terrorist-haven, with Hamas overthrowing the other terrorists, Fatah and they’re working on the West Bank.
Someday there will be a “Palestinian state” and it’s stuff like this that is taking us there.
Now we have the U.N. in southern Lebanon protecting Hizbollah so they can rebuild. The U.N. is a backstabbing entity to Israel. No wonder they’re on board with the Roadmap.
Whenever land is given in exchange for peace, an attack on Israel is not far behind.
You are one of the few posters who gets it
This pressure on Israel comes from $95/barrel oil and our real estate mess which has us devaluing the USD via Federal Rserve interest rate cutes
Saudi and other rich Arab nations are threatening to de-couple from the USD unless maximum pressure is put on Israel. The US Dollar is so precarious we are agreeing to this
True plus Arabs love large prestigious conferences where they can talk and talk and feel like big shots and eat lots of lobster and fillet mignon and drink lots of coffee and talk and talk and talk and there are high priced blond call girls who are lots more fun than their stupid wives back home. Liquor and booze too
agreed
Because we are the only channel, it's convenient for everybody else (they can criticize us for "failures" and take credit for "successes"), nobody else wants to be one (nobody in their right mind) etc. etc. And we don't want anybody else (like EU and Russia or UN, for instance) to do a run around and leave us on the sidelines either. And what other means (except military) do they have to achieve their stated goals? Plus, it would be nice to put them all on the record at the table what their stated goals are. Also, see links in my post #35.
IMO it's very iffy for the United States to set up this exercise, then come out of it smelling like a rose if nothing is accomplished.
What have we got to lose? "It's a difficult task, and at least, we are trying", and we can criticize the obstinacy, inflexibility and rigidity of other parties, too - in other words, "engage in diplomacy". But most importantly, after the failure of "Annapolis", or another "path to peace" document at the table, the entire subject very fast will be off the table, probably until the end of this administration (and, importantly, Olmert's).
This could convince them that military action would be the only sound course from here on out.
In other words, either they can get Israel piecemeal, or they go militarily. Simply, they don't have to be convinced, they are already there. This meeting may help prolong their hope for piecemeal "solution", if not - fine, nothing changed, we are where we were yesterday on that matter. "Annapolis" will not accelerate anything.
While I certainly think there are worse political powers (obviously), I'm not convinced Abbas and the P.A. is an organization ordained from heaven. I think it's an organization ordained from another place.
Of course. Think of him as a weak version Joe Stalin in WW2, maybe Shah of Iran etc. etc. We need somebody "to do the things we won't do" against Hamas, and that will keep both "parties" occupied (pardon the pun) from doing other things. Also helps our image and street cred. Many people there don't know how much we contribute in [wasted] humanitarian efforts, but they will see American M-16s and Humvees defending them from Hamas.
If all players leave the conference happy ...
Oh, no chance of that, at least outwardly. The main point of the meeting is for everybody to be more unhappy with each other or more unhappy with somebody else, more so than us - after all, we just provide the table and refreshments, it's up to them to work things out - that's why there are so many of them, including IMF and World Bank.
If the Golan Heights are given back to Syria, or some other tangible concessions
No chance of that, either. Syria can put anything on her agenda, it's meaningless (and Israel is not the only country that doesn't want to see that). Olmert is very weak, any promises of tangible concessions on his part will not be approved in Knesset and will only speed up his demise. It's not like releasing a number of prisoners as a goodwill gesture, which is in itself stupid but far from fatal.
I've been listening to Bush and Rice and Powell for long enough to think we have a major problem understanding what Israel is up against.
Fortunately, Powell is no longer anywhere near State or other Departments. I would not put Powell anywhere near Condi, in character, loyalty or brainpower or desire for "legacy", adoration and being in public view. If anything, given the nature of State Department, especially after Albright and Powell and Armitage, it's amazing what she achieved at State and how little harm actually came from that Dept during her tenure.
Bush's illegal immigration (what was he thinking?) and some other domestic policies, including prolific spending and dubious new government-expanding "programs", notwithstanding - his foreign policies team (including Cheney and Condi) have been mostly excellent... obviously, within the realm of possible, given entrenched bureaucracies and outright treasonous sabotage.
Well, we’ll wait and see. Thanks for the comments.
Come back next week and we’ll talk some more.
Unfortunately, after the 90’s, Gaza was not defensible any longer, and was a constant flash point that was draining Israel’s resources... and in the end, didn’t even prevent rockets from flying.
At least now Gaza is literally “occupied” by Hamas, which takes the mask off and shows the true face of what the “Palestinian state” will look like. Hamas in Gaza is also a thorn in the back of Egypt who doesn’t need the problems with “Palestinians”, even the Egyptian ones. It also makes it easier for Israel to conduct counter-terror and military operations in Gaza, when she is not seen as “occupier”. It also help set up a pseudo Palestine “two-state solution” - with Hamas in Gaza and PA / Fatah in West Bank - which means there is no longer any one person or “government” that can speak for “Palestine” or make “peace” with Israel, or demand anything from Israel, until they sort themselves out. That’s just one reason why there can be nothing tangible accomplished at “Annapolis” - there is no one at the table who is in charge and who can make things happen. So Israel, whatever Olmert may want to do, is not even the issue anymore until these thugs sort things out between themselves. Now, that’s progress.
UN in Lebanon, is of course a temporary “solution” in search of a permanent problem - elimination of Hezbollah and/or its primary sponsor - Iranian mullahs’ regime, whichever comes first (I expect this to be Iranians). BTW, Condi defended Israel’s side and gave Olmert as much time as he wanted in Lebanon’s unsatisfactory standoff, until he said ‘no mas’, after which she arranged French - UN temporary “solution”. I would not expect Israel getting anything like that from Powell.
Thanks. Take care.
In the end, many nations will rally against Israel and meet her God on the battlefield. But most of them don’t believe it and the jihadists work themselves into an allah-frenzy to prepare for it.
They’re extraordinarily dumb, but many of them are flush with cash and working towards nuclear weapons.
One of these days, it’s going to get real ugly, real fast and the world will not be able to escape the inevitable escalation.
That’s but one reason I hate to see Israel painted into a corner, by her own leaders, or others.
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