Hey, Cliff, look over here...
Posted on 11/14/2007 4:59:55 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
Trade jitters, anti-China sentiment rouse voters
By Andrea Hopkins
Wed Nov 14, 1:56 PM ET
It could be expected that Iraq would play a big role in the 2008 U.S. election campaign. But if recent populist rallies are an indication, another country may be rousing even more anger from voters: China.
In all corners of an overflowing convention room this week in the industrial Rust-Belt city of Pittsburgh, voters, union officials and company executives alike railed against unfair trade -- and demanded U.S. politicians do something.
"Our government refuses to stand up to the Chinese and make a level playing field," John Ratzenberger, a television actor headlining the event, told about 800 factory workers and concerned voters, to applause.
The standing-room-only gathering was the fourth in a series of rallies in key U.S. states sponsored by the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a nonprofit group whose partners include the United Steelworkers union.
Voters were given a list of questions to put to presidential candidates who might pass through the crucial swing state of Pennsylvania in the run-up to the November 2008 presidential election, including queries like: how will you "hold cheating countries like China accountable?"
Few in the audience seemed to need such prompting.
"China makes these inferior products but they have all our debt so they don't listen to us for one minute," said retired General Motors worker Bernadette Koval, 66, a Democrat.
More than 3.1 million U.S. manufacturing jobs have been lost since Republican President George W. Bush took office, most in states like Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio, where next year's presidential election could be decided.
While many key trade deals were signed by former President Bill Clinton, a Democrat, voter sentiment on trade has soured in the seven years since Bush took over. A majority of Americans, including 60 percent of Republicans, now believe free trade is bad for the U.S. economy, according to recent NBC News-Wall Street Journal polls.
'TAINTED GOODS'
Safety concerns have helped stir anti-trade momentum, a development analysts said could boost the globalization issue to the top of voter agendas in 2008.
"The tainted goods issue is a factor," said Jared Bernstein, an economist at the liberal Economic Policy Institute in Washington. "A lot more people in the electorate are going to be looking for the government to step in and meet these challenges of globalization, not least of which is product safety. And that's going to cut across party lines."
"Just look at all the bad toys," said retired meat cutter Charles Hrelec, 80, referring to recalls of lead-contaminated and other unsafe toys from China in recent months.
Bernstein said popular opinion against both politicians and U.S. companies that outsource jobs overseas makes trade an issue that Democrats could capitalize on in 2008.
In the crowded hall, Republican Craig Tripp, 37, said he supports Democrat John Edwards, the former senator from North Carolina, due in large part to his stand against unfettered trade.
"Everything is falling apart," Tripp said. "There's no manufacturing here any more. We're paying $20 billion a month in trade from China -- that can't be sustained. We could be making those goods in the United States."
That the monthly trade imbalance with China -- it was actually $23.8 billion in September -- rolls off the tongue of a middle-class voter does not bode well for free-trade proponents and candidates from both parties have taken note.
Edwards has taken the most populist stand among Democratic front-runners, pledging to revisit unpopular trade deals and chastising rivals Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois for voting to support a trade deal with Peru last week.
But Republicans, too, have taken up the mantra of "fair trade" rather than free trade and U.S. Steel Corp chief operating officer John Goodish said the issue is bipartisan.
"It's our job, together with the union, to make sure we keep manufacturing competitive," Goodish, a Republican, told the crowd. "It's the government's job to make sure we have a level playing field. They're not doing their job."
(Editing by Lori Santos and Bill Trott)
Ping!
Only one man in the race has the courage to talk about China and security.
In the crowded hall, Republican Craig Tripp, 37, said he supports Democrat John Edwards, the former senator from North Carolina, due in large part to his stand against unfettered trade.
I agree, though. It’s time for fair trade. Screw free trade.
Out comes the cheerleaders for Fleece Trade with a chart that uses skewed or incomplete statistics to tell those folks they are stupid and never really had it this good....
There are reasons why people spend their time going to political rallys especially when they have never went to such things before.
The US electorate may be taking on a Nationalistic outlook, that is not a good thing when we have three wars ongoing..
By the way, has anyone compiled 'The Sayings of Chairman Duncan' on the China problem? (and he was an actual Chairman of the Armed Services Committee as I recall.)
You seem to be the keeper of the archives.
And that man is Duncan Hunter. It’s a wide open race, might as well back the most conservative man.
According to Polls, Fred Thompson Foundering
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1925179/posts
Here’s what I’ve been posting lately.
Here’s a recent poll showing Hunter at 4%.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/28889/republicans_2008_giuliani_28_thompson_19
Here’s an intrade link to the forum site discussing how Hunter might be gaining traction.
http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/1797.page
Here’s one showing Fred at 6%, and discussing why.
http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/1805.page
One thing prediction markets are better at — their only bias is whether someone can make money trading the futures contracts.
The Efficacy Of Prediction Markets
The Liberty Papers ^ | November 8, 2007 | Brad Warbiany
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1922961/posts
Posted on 11/08/2007 12:21:43 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
Fred has lost ~30 points at Intrade over the last few weeks, looks like it’s stabilizing at ~6%.
Thompson Tanking in Futures Markets (Intrade, IEM)
Intrade; Iowa Electronic Markets ^ | October 31, 2008
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1919127/posts
The Dropout contract for Thompson has an ask price 2 points higher than last trade. There is no Dropout contract for Hunter.
http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/contractSearch/
DROPOUT.DEC07.(F)THOMPSON
Fred Thompson to drop out of 2008 Presidential race on/before 31 Dec 2007 M 6.0 9.2 4.0 0 0
For instance, just from today:
Duncan Hunter Speaks To Nevada About Chinese Threat
News Which Cannot Lose\Elko Daily Free Press ^ | 11-13-07 | Elko Daily Free Press
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1925890/posts
Posted on 11/14/2007 4:55:46 PM PST by WalterSkinner
that is not a good thing when we have three wars ongoing..
***Iraq, Afghanistan, and WOT?
Hey, Cliff, look over here...
Ping to post #6
WOT?
Exactly, we have soldiers in various roles from the Phillipines to Columbia to Djubti to who knows “?” doing counter terror operations and training.
I can understand the reaction to the trade deals, I don’t care for them myself, but we cannot allow ourselves to lose 3 wars on a knee jerk “America needs them on the Border” sentiment.
I can understand the reaction to the trade deals, I don’t care for them myself, but we cannot allow ourselves to lose 3 wars on a knee jerk “America needs them on the Border” sentiment.
***I do not understand what you’re talking about. We’re WINNING the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. If we left today (see my tagline) we would be leaving behind relatively healthy countries. The WOT is not really a war, it’s like the WOD and war on poverty, mostley a bunch of sloganeering. These trade deals AND the border issues are all interrelated — by trading with our enemies on favorable terms, we fund the terrorists against us, and also the border is a security issue, noting that several of the 9/11 hijackers were illegal aliens. Like the WOD, you never win nor lose the WOT, it just becomes a living bureaucracy; so I wouldn’t count the WOT as a third war to be lost.
Good. These people can vote for the one person actually talking about China (and no, I'm not referring to Hillary).
Even more importantly, these people vote with their wallets: they can join me and others in simply looking at where products are made before tossing them in the cart.
DITTO. You do not know how many times I been beaten up by freepers who claim free trade is good for the US and it is not an issue amongst GOP rank and file. The WSJ poll shows that 60 percent of GOP is having second thoughts about free trade. Job security thru fair trade, illegal immigration, war on terror and taxes will be the GOP winning ticket. Take the right position on all four issues and the Blue Collar Dem and GOP coalition will be revived and give the GOP a landslide. Be wrong on one of the four issues, and it will be a close election.
Thanks for the thread! I’m pasting a copy of one of my previous posts (link and comments from article) here. I can’t stand that china is the MFN....never did like it.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060600.asp
June 6, 2000
snip
“...the recent vote in Congress to grant China permanent “most favored nation...”
snip
“...instead of concentrating on the millions of consumers, international trade policy is too often focused on the desires of producers, including the producers of technology that can enable China to more accurately aim nuclear missiles at American cities. It is not yet clear how many of our nuclear secrets were stolen and sent to China, but what we have sold to them is enough to qualify as one of the most reckless acts of a reckless administration.
—snip—
When we try to play moralistic political games with international trade policy or diplomatic recognition, we not only fail politically, but also morally. If the issue were moral, then we should have nothing whatever to do with China, either politically or economically. But, when we only pretend that the issue is moral, and then establish diplomatic relations and grant most favored nation status, the question becomes: If China is not bad enough to be denied these statuses, then who is?
If we deny “most favored nation” status to some other regime after granting it to China, what have we accomplished, except to make ourselves look like hypocrites, thereby reducing our moral influence in the world?...”
Hunter
I think we are on the same page kevmo, we cannot pull back and allow ourselves to lose due to some misplaced sentiment concerning the US’s role in the world.
Wow, you’re spreading lies on multiple threads now! How . . . passionate . . . you must be about deception.
Fred is not at 6%, though there is a futures market at Intrade that trades at about 6.
I think you are right. Having the US Commerce Sec. go over and Kowtow to the Chinese regularly has not helped.
saving
Matched by the cheerleaders for the Nanny State who have no statistics to skew whatsover, but know someone who's uncle lost his job at the urinal-cake factory.
See, that didn’t take long.
Troll for a comment, get one. It’s not that complicated. Welcome to FR.
Truly, one will come out from under a NAFTA bridge faster then one can say “Fleece Trade lifts all boats...”
I wonder what her Freeper screen name is?
"Everything is falling apart," Tripp said. "There's no manufacturing here any more.
No manufacturing at all. LOL!
Whether you like it or not people are wakign up to fre trade adn are turning against it. I for one will welcome fair trade.
It is also sad how many free traitor globalist say they ae conservatives. But the tide has turned.
Nor was it very politically astute for the Administration to be sending idiots like Gregory Mankiw and John Snow to places like my state where there have been devastating job losses in the manufacturing sector to make speeches to people about how great it is for them to be losing their jobs to offshoring. They did just that prior to the '04 election, and it came close to losing the election for Bush. He won the state by a smaller margin than he did in 2000, and it was only damned hard work by the grassroots to GOTV and the 9/11 issue that tipped the (close) election to him. The 'Pubs paid the price in '06 when the state went blue in almost every statewide office, as well as tipping the Senate to the 'Rats. This is a salient issue in some electorally-key states and the 'Pubs better get a better message out on this than the one they've been pushing (losing your job is good).
Meanwhile, the Republicans are climbing over each other for a seat on the short "green" bus while the National security train pulls out of the station empty.
Case in point: Bob Inglis, Representative from SC. Need I continue?
We need more government to protect us? LOL!
No we need fair trad and a level playing field. And that is the issue that people are starting to demand in ever growing numbers.
What do you suggest?
And that is the issue that people are starting to demand in ever growing numbers.
I'm sure what Hillary gives you will be fair.
That would give us fair trade and a level playing field? What if the foreigners earn less money? Or have fewer regulations? Does that make trade unfair?
6 out of 10 Republicans in a latest poll believe the current free trade arrangment is making the US the trade patsies.
Some free traders on this site will quickly point out these 60% of Republicans are basing their beliefs on emotions and anecdotes and then bring out their skewered charts to tell them they are wrong.
Considering the fact that you only post your emotions and anecdotes.......
If need be, just like we need more border security. BUt liek I said free traitors are losing ground fast.
“Come on now. An enormous trade deficit with China ia awesome. And it’s not really a deficit at all! After all, we export a lot of T Bills for them to buy!
Import and borrow : A winning strategy for America!
This message has been approved by Citizens for a Worthless Dollar”
You are just an emotional drone swept up in the MSM agit prop, fleece trade good, fleece trade good...repeat.../s
America is increasingly turning inward mysterio, and it can be said that paying to arm the PRC military is in a word...stupid, yet out comes the chart that states “Inflation has never been lower etc*
*excluding healthcare, fuel, food, tuition and an increasing debt and deficit and trade imbalance and....
So squirt, let's say you are having severe chest pains with pain radiating down your left arm. You cleary know something is wrong. You go to the hospital. The hospital finds nothing in their test and sends you home.
What would you think of your doctor if he said the pains were the result of your imagination?
Just because the charts show nothing does not mean it is not happening.
The 60% of Republicans are basing their beliefs that free trade is bad due to their own circumstances and what they see happening around them in their community....not some skewed charts from the cato institution who has an agenda.
I am a socon, but neocon globalist are losing out now.
Just because you have a bad feeling, doesn't mean you're right.
The 60% of Republicans are basing their beliefs that free trade is bad due to their own circumstances and what they see happening around them in their community
And what they're seeing on the MSM, with their left wing bias. And what they're hearing from whiners on FR.
A Socon who wants bigger government?
No I want smaller, but we need security, there are other places to cut to more then offset. And as a socon I put America and Americans first not the globalist free traitor agenda.
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