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U,K,: NHS Rationing 'Leads To Patient Deaths' (National Health Service)
Sky News (U.K.) ^ | September 25, 2007

Posted on 09/25/2007 11:57:52 AM PDT by Stoat

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To: Stoat
Just a small example of what we can expect in the USA if HillaryCare is allowed to gain a foothold.

Picture the efficiency of Amtrak with the warmth and charm of the DMV.

21 posted on 09/25/2007 12:59:05 PM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys: Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat; but they know what's best for us)
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To: N. Theknow

But it’s Free...


22 posted on 09/25/2007 1:04:42 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Phantom Lord

‘When controlled for murder and auto accidents, which Americans die from at a far greater rate than any other industrialized nation, we are the longest living.’

Are you sure? One seventh of 1% of the US population die on the roads every year, so if we add one seventh of 1% to your life expectancy, it makes virtually no difference. Same story with murders - 13,000 Americans murdered, less than a 20th of 1% of the population isn’t going to increase or decrease average life expectancy by much. There are several industrialised nations with higher murder and road death rates than the US.


23 posted on 09/25/2007 2:02:35 PM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp
Brits on average live longer than Americans

I've got a crackpot theory about such statistics, so I might as well air it here.

The Brits/Scots/Irish are much skinnier than Americans. I could have counted the fat UKers I saw on one hand, I think. Americans on average have gained a lot of weight in the last couple of decades. Why?

My theory is because Americans drink much more liquid than Europeans. They drink a moderate amount of Guinness, but if you order a diet coke you're liable to get a glass of 8-10oz, with maybe two or three small ice cubes in it. And no automatic re-fill, you have to explicitly stop the waitress and order a new one.

Americans have been advised in the last few decades to drink lots of liquids, and surely in places like Phoenix it would be dangerous not to. Americans have been told to drink liquids, and it will quell their appetite and they'll eat less. But Big Gulps have grown to huge purportions, and the overweight numbers are only getting higher.

So my theory is that perhaps increasing your liquids will make you eat less, for awhile. But eventually it will expand your capacity to eat, and your capacity for an appetite will increase as well.

"Diet" coca cola is not "calorie free" if it makes you eat more chicken fried steak.

24 posted on 09/25/2007 2:02:40 PM PDT by narby
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To: RKV

‘That said, give me Johns Hopkins, Stanford, or some other major US hospital if my life was on the line.’

Well, as Americans are generally less healthy than Brits your hospitals get more practice! :)


25 posted on 09/25/2007 2:06:33 PM PDT by britemp
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To: narby

‘I’ve got a crackpot theory about such statistics, so I might as well air it here.’

Are you sure it’s not just because the average American portion is twice that of the UK? I’m 6’2” ex armed forces and when I’m in the US I see kids eating huge portions I can’t finish. To English eyes there seems to be a culture of excess in food in the US. I don’t know how anyone can finish those buckets of fizzy pop they serve.

I think Brits still have a lot of the puritan in them and see such large portions as self-indulgent. We tend to walk a lot more as well.


26 posted on 09/25/2007 2:14:14 PM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp
Are you sure it’s not just because the average American portion is twice that of the UK?

There's probably some chicken and egg thing going on here. I actually lost weight during the trip, and we ate three times a day, often all we could eat. The part of the meals that were most "european" were the liquid sizes, about half a normal American drink size.

I should experiment on myself with this. Drink Euro sized drinks, and see if I lose weight because my appetite goes away.

27 posted on 09/25/2007 2:24:29 PM PDT by narby
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To: britemp

Not quite sure that that is true. I’ll skip the obligatory comment on the state of British dental care. ;>)


28 posted on 09/25/2007 2:26:50 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: narby
I think you are onto something, although I would skip a few steps and simply check the calorie count of the drinks. I suspect Europeans drink a lot more water as opposed to sodas and get much fewer calories from the drinks.
29 posted on 09/25/2007 3:40:56 PM PDT by Fraxinus (My opinion worth what you paid.)
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To: KarlInOhio
"We need a rationing process which is transparent, consistent, evidence-based and fair."
The doctor will come in and say "I could cure you, but the government has decided that you should die instead. Please go home and stop fighting it."

The only way the government can keep the rationing system going is by making it as opaque as possible.

Russians who were denied "rights" which the commies had no intention of respecting would be wait in line in one office, then get shuffled off to another one in a different place or city, until they lost interest - or tumbled to the reality and became vocally cynical, when they would be shipped off to the gulag until they were quietly cynical. Or quietly dead.

Nobody would want to trade places with the fabulously wealthy Queen Victoria, because the health care available in the Nineteenth Century was negligible compared to today's. She was depressed for the last 20 years of her life because her husband died - and nobody much dies of typhoid these days. But even so, people still die - so health care technology is obviously still woefully inadequate to the purpose.

Other needs such as food are of finite utility, but health care is in principle of unlimited secular utility. Therefore we can see that the free market will eventually make health care the predominant factor in the economy. Socialism, by contrast, promises to make health care cheap. Hillary will always talk about "quality" health care, but the reality of socialism is that cost can always be held down somehow (no matter how deleterious) - and convenience and quality are inevitably the first casualties.

Socialism destroys the freedom to use your own money to reward quality - then condemns those who don't provide better quality than they have any reason to do. Socialism is finally just criticism, condemnation, and complaint. Just like journalism. And people wonder why journalists are socialist-minded . . .


30 posted on 09/26/2007 1:28:39 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: Stoat

bookmark


31 posted on 09/26/2007 1:57:25 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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