Posted on 08/20/2007 11:49:32 AM PDT by lizol
Polish-German relations turn sour again
20.08.2007
The Polish-German relations turn sour after the meeting of the German Union of Expellees attended by the president of the EP, Hans-Gert Poettering. During the meeting the group’s chief Erika Steinbach said that the dislocation of expellees could not be justified by Hitler's actions. Many in Poland reacted by accusing the leader of the German Union of Expellees of attempting to revive wartime animosities.
Danusia Szafraniec reports
This is not the first time that Erika Steinbach’s statements caused strong reactions in Poland. Head of the German Union of Expellees sparked outrage in this country, for example, by opening an exhibition in Berlin focused on the fate of ethnic Germans expelled from Eastern Europe after the defeat of the Nazi Germany during WWII. The majority of Poles saw casting Germans as victims of World War Two as an attempt to revise history. Many inhabitants of north-eastern Poland are also concerned that former German owners may reclaim the properties they abandoned after 1945. Small wonder then that when Steinbach called for remembering the sufferings of the millions of German-speakers thrown out of Eastern Europe at the end of World War II Polish experts saw her speech as a failure to take historical context into account. Sociologist professor Zdzislaw Krasnodebski explains.
"On the one hand, we try to play down the historical reasons behind what happened in the past - from the beginning of the war through the national socialism but also that it was an international decision implemented in Poland which was a country subjugated by communism".
According to estimates, between 13 and 16 million ethnic Germans were expelled after the war, mainly from western Poland and the western Czech Republic. Professor Anna Wolff-Powęska, head of the Western Institute in Poznan and one of the biggest experts in Polish-German relation says that the leader of the German Union of Expellees should not be treated as a partner for dialogue.
"Mrs. Steinbach has proven on many occasions that she is a politician who cares mainly about her own prestige. Hence she presents many spectacular and often anti-Polish but also anti-Czech statements to bring back into the spotlight the subject which may have already been forgotten. However, she is a politician who may be disregarded".
Back in Poland and with electoral campaign about to start PM Jaroslaw Kaczynski has accused the Polish opposition Civic Platform over the weekend of being too dependent on Germany. Bronislaw Komorowski of the Citizen Platform claims that Poland’s PM is thus trying to fuel more objections instead of dispersing fears.
"I don't think Jaroslaw Kaczynski has had much success in the Polish-German relations - also in the sphere of dismissing the fears of Poles in this area. He himself spoke loudly before previous elections about the solution to the issue of ownership of expellees and concerns of Polish citizens connected with it but has done nothing to that respect. So now he wants to point to others as being more compliant".
Other experts point to the fact that many problems in the mutual relations should be dealt with within the European Union. Eugeniusz Smolar is the head of the Center for International relations in Warsaw.
"The statement of Erika Steinbach was much more popular and widespread in Poland then it was in Germany so I wouldn't exaggerate but the fact is that some of the Polish politicians are using exactly the same issues in order to pump up their own popularity which is really sensitive to some of the aspects of the aspects of the Polish-German relations. There is a problem but I believe this is not in the interest of Poland to raise this as a controversial issue vis a vis Germany and especially it is not in the interest of Poland to make an issue within the context of our forthcoming elections".
Contrary to what politicians may say, recent surveys seem to prove that neighbourly relations are getting better. Poles tend to accept Germans in everyday life to a much greater extent then 10 years ago. The same trend is visible in Germany – Poles in the eyes of Germans are seen as a much higher quality nation then it was a decade ago. And let’s not forget that Germany was one of the biggest proponents of Poland’s EU membership while many cities from both countries participate in the twin-towns projects.
Ping
From Wikipedia (and therefore needs verification)
>>Historical background
It is estimated that in the aftermath of World War II between 13 and 16 million ethnic Germans fled or were expelled from the territories of present-day Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia (mostly from Vojvodina region), the Kaliningrad Oblast (formerly Königsberg) area of Russia, Lithuania, Romania and other East European countries. Many refugee camps had been set up in Germany after 1945 and this legal status is paralleled only by the situation of Palestinian refugees in UNRWA camps. The first president of the federation was a Nazi judge and activist Hans Krüger. Today, the position is held by a CDU politician Erika Steinbach. The federation represents claims to represent the diaspora of ethnic Germans and their families (today numbering approximately 15 million [citation needed]).<<
Since the ethnic Germans likely but not always collaborated with the invading Nazis I can see where its a stress point.
I fail to see why so many Poles regard the accurate reporting of history as “anti-Polish”. It happened.
It’s pretty difficult to come up with a legitimate reason why Palestinians should have a right of return to their property of 1948, and Germans should have no such right to the property they owned in 1945.
Some of the areas from which Germans were expelled had been German in language and culture for almost a thousand years.
I predict that this type of problem will become less a problem as time goes on. I lived in Germany from 87-91 and got to know some Germans that were from Pomerania and Silesia that is now Polish territory. These people are now well over 70 and had no interest in trying to reclaim part of Poland for Germany. They seemed happy as Bavarians.
In my opinion, Polish-German relations are relatively good. I think the Poles have much, much stronger feeling against the Russians than Germans.
>>It’s pretty difficult to come up with a legitimate reason why Palestinians should have a right of return to their property of 1948, and Germans should have no such right to the property they owned in 1945.
Some of the areas from which Germans were expelled had been German in language and culture for almost a thousand years.<<
I’m sure collaboration with the extermination of much of the native population had something to do with the reasoning. That said it is unfair to those who did not collaborate with the German government.
The expulsion of the Germans was classic “ethnic cleansing,” which has become such a demonized word recently.
If you believe the expulsion of the Germans was OK, then you’re not opposed to ethnic cleansing as such, only to unjustified EC. We can then discuss when EC is and is not justifiable, but have moved past the “it is always wrong” argument.
She was born in Rumia (which was a Polish city before WW2, located near Gdynia) - as a daughter of a German non-commissioned officer, who was stationed there. In other words, her father was an occupant.
When Soviet an Polish troops were coming - they had to leave Rumia.
And now Erika Steinbach is supposed to be considered as an expellee??? Crying, that the cruel Poles deprived her of her homeland???
And the Poles are supposed to sit quietly?
Give me a brake
It wasn’t the Poles’ call, it was Uncle Joe’s call. Plus the Soviets took even more land from Poland, and expelled all of the Poles from there (any that were left after the Soviets shipped most of the Poles off to Siberia between 39-41).
Palestinians at least arguably collaborated with an attempted extermination of Israeli Jews in 1948.
While this attempt failed, it wasn’t for lack of trying.
The question, of course, is whether it is ever right to punish all members of a group for the misdeeds of some of its members.
I’m not saying that the expulsion was just or unjust.
I’m interested in the mindset of those, primarily liberals, who will defend the ethnic cleansing of Germans but are appalled by ethnic cleansing of groups today who made themselves unpopular with their neighbors.
>>The question, of course, is whether it is ever right to punish all members of a group for the misdeeds of some of its members.<<
No there isn’t. But since these countries retaliated against even their own citizens accused of cooperating with Germany I can see how this happened.
Its a strange concept to me. I think of myself as American and didn’t even know or care which countries in Europe my ancestors came from until I was a teenager. I think of Europe as ..well, Europe. To me, WW2 was long over and the Germans as well as the rest of Europe were our friends. But damn, they still draw a lot of distinctions over there..
And I suspect the Palestinians will never get the right of return.
I think that pretty much sums it up. Erika Steinbach is clearly a lunatic. She should just be ignored.
The Problem is, that she’s clearly suported by prominent politicians of the CDU - Germany’s ruling party (like Hans Gert Poettering - the speaker of the European Parliament, or Roland Koch - the Prime Minister of the land of Hessen).
You are right. Neither has a right of return to their property. Both started wars which they lost. They are both lucky their ancestors even survived the wars that they started. It’s a joke that they even have the nerve to ask for their lands back after what their ancestors did. F the displaced Palestinians and the displaced Germans.
I don’t know who erika steinbach is, nor do I care. You cannot deny that millions of Germans and ethnic Germans were forcibly (and violently) expelled from their homes. Facts are facts, even if you don’t like them.
Give yourself a break.
And history should be forgotten?
Most of those people were not expelled, but abandoned their houses, before the advancing Soviet army. Many were forced to do so by the Nazi German authorities.
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