Posted on 08/19/2007 11:08:17 AM PDT by Terriergal
This is why i do not go to church. I can read God’s word at home. It is my belief that 50 to 75% of church people need to read ACT 5: Ananias and Sapphira.
Sovereign Grace is a code-word for 5 point Calvanism.
You either agree with 5 point Calvanism or you don’t.
My problem with Calvanism is - why do we need a construct to help us understand the clear teachings of the bible? If it’s not a clear teaching, why do we add a framework to help us understand it?
Was not the ENTIRE reformation REALLY based on SOLA SRITURA?
Is or is not the bible the sole document needed to form the church? -— or do I need to add the 5 points of Calvanism? I may /may not agree (to various extents) with each of the 5 points - because I can only go as far as scripture - no further.
God has left SOME things in tension - why do we think we *can* answer or *should* answer every question? Isn’t it OK to say “we don’t know, but in the fullness of time, and with the revelation of God, in his presence, we shall know....and when we do, we will know the glory of God, in that God is good, and there is no darkness in him, and that all things have worked together for the benefit of those who believe in Him.”
I currently attend a Church that professes full 5 point Calvanism, which is why I am not an elder....I do not agree with them in the adoption of Calvin. Just because the Catholic church was in error does not mean that everything the reformers came up with was correct, either. Strangely enough, the very thing the Reformers fought and died for (Sola Scriptura, The Priesthood of Jesus to the believer directly, etc) is being dimished to defend out modern interpretation of “The Reformation”.
Just my 2 cents.
My freep name is BereanBrain......if you know who the Bereans were in the bible, then you have my philosophy of church.
We do need Christian fellowship, even if it’s just a handful of people meeting in each others’ homes, sitting in a circle actually fellowshipping; reading Scripture, singing hymns, psalms and spiritual songs, seeking Christ to actually BE there instead of lined up in pews, staring at the backs of someone’s heads for an hour listening to some guy read a couple of verses and tell funny stories for half an hour after some singing *star* entertains the congregation for a few minutes, and then smiling, nodding and then off to a restaurant for lunch most times.
Constantia’s not tooooo far from where I live. Nice looking, old fashioned little country church!
Our pastors certainly don’t make thousands of dollars a year and they sure don’t work one day a week. That’s such a lie. MOST pastors are busy every day, even when they work at another job and many do. Tending to the flock is a full time job. Putting out the fires that always crop up is also a full time job. I don’t envy pastors or their wives because they work far more for far less than most. God bless them!
AMEN, doc. I don’t know too many true pastors who are sitting around on their laurels six days a week.
They’re all saintly to many here, until they get caught, or long after they got caught. and long after they declared that the Soviet Union is, why, a worshipper’s paradise, and that oh, them ladies just luv Billy Jeff (the rapist)!
Hmmmm.
You know the website doesn’t provide an address for the church :-)
The only reason he probably turned himself in was because the church accountant noticed something was wrong with the books. What is astonishing is that some in the congregation would like to give him another chance.
Mary, you are painting with a very broad brush here. There ARE way too many preachers, not necessarily in your particular denomination, who set out to and do establish their own little kingdoms under the guise of doing it for the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, I am NOT lying as you say about what I observed in my own experience, and I was close to the “inner sanctum” there because my husband was an overworked deacon because the preacher was always at the car dealership working on another sale. The “flock” to which I refer never got to over about 20 active club members, because this guy ran off anyone who saw through his charming facade. There was and still is the constant struggle up there to draw new bank accounts and musical *stars* into the “flock” or club in order to make up for the scores of good people these two drive away (I don’t believe this guy thought my husband would dare leave his authority despite what I did). He very astutely deduced that my husband controlled the finances in our relationship; but got badly surprised when my husband finally left and has “punished” my husband ever since with total silence - something a real friend wouldn’t do. That’s my experience there, and I’m not going to paint every preacher and wife team with the broad brush of “God’s Chosen” because there are SOME of them who are not. I’m sure there lots of good apples in the barrel, but those who aren’t really stink up the whole barrel when they continue to be worshipped by their loyal few who become so hypnotized that they won’t call them on their bad behavior and mean pulpit tactics. When pulpit behavior ignores real scriptural misdeeds and focuses instead on their own egos, it’s time for deacons and elders to stop being total “yes” men.
What the heck do they mean by “TRANSITION”??? Transition from what??
“WATCHCARE” over Baptism?? Rick Warren may be the best Cristian ever, but I don’t trust a man with a goattee like that...something creeps me out about him.
I guess they must mean to “transition” from churches generally preaching an unpopular message of godliness and struggling financially into “inclusive” megachurches, rich and increased in goods, having need of nothing - having itching ears to hear “if it feels good, it’s okay” gathering to themselves teachers who will scratch this anything goes itch, assure them that it’s just fine to “love themselves” - and drag Christ, minus any mention of BLOOD, along as an afterthought to all the social programs. So, get out of the way when the church staff pulls out of the parking lot in their long black Lincolns and don’t get in the way of all this transitional vibrancy.
Platte River Gospel,is what I call P.D. stuff-— mile wide and an inch deep
I’m not saying YOU were lying about your own experience. But there IS a lie going on in most, especially liberal, circles that make pastors out to be a bunch of lazy do nothings who steal from their congregations. I don’t know of any but I am SURE that it happens. I just don’t want people to think that this is the norm for pastors. I’m sorry that your experience was so bad for you. I know it happens and I don’t want you to think I was calling you a liar. I just don’t want to see the lie perpetuated about pastors, most of whom work their butts off for very little pay. Please forgive me if it sounded like I was calling you a liar. That was certainly not my intention. Mxxx
OMG!
One thing that really disturbs me is this notion that the so called “mega-churches” are really cash cows that preach some watered down ear tickling version of Christianity lite. I would rather be a part of the large church of which I am a member because it is up front in proclaiming the Gospel and fulfilling the Great Commission. We are having a “transition” to a contemporary worship style, and people of all ages are drawn to it. The 2x4 to the head message from the preacher must really tickle some ears in order to bring in so many people. A church service does not need to be in King James English in order to win people to Christ. In fact, it would just scare off most people because most products of the public school system have trouble with today’s English, much less “traditional” King James English.
As to the money coming in, it goes to spread the Gospel throughout the world, including places where missionaries from our church are risking their lives in God’s service. The “social programs” actually allow people to have fellowship with other Christians and to seek help where otherwise they would have to go into the world in order to obtain what they need. The staff won’t hit me on the way out of the parking lot, either, because they are usually the last ones out, and they don’t drive big luxury cars. Small churches may have their place, but they just do not have the means to do everything that a solid large church can.
SOME of the megachurches preach an anything goes watered down version of Christ that totally eliminates the blood of Christ. . and when OR IF the preacher draws out two-thirds of the total church budget for his salary, it is a cash cow - big or little. Big or little, a church can be mostly a cash cow while giving what amounts to little dribbles to missionaries who are supposed to be fulfilling the Great Commission. . and bringing in a lot of people is not always the acid test; in fact, the majority is wrong most of the time. The tendency here to take every observation about churches in general as an indictment against their own personal sacred cows (good sacred cow or bad I don’t know) is puzzling.
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