You have a real gift for hyperbole, Tantiboh. Unfortunately, it's easily seen for what it is.
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Locked on 08/03/2007 6:34:01 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Poor behavior |
Posted on 07/26/2007 5:03:33 PM PDT by tantiboh
Democratic political consultant Mark Mellman has a very good piece up today at The Hill on the baffling and illegitimate opposition among voters to Mitt Romney due to his religion. I liked his closing paragraphs:
In July of 1958, 24 percent of respondents told Gallup they would not vote for a Catholic for president, almost identical to Gallup’s reading on Mormons today. Two years later, John F. Kennedy became the first Catholic to assume the oath of office. Within eight months, the number refusing to vote for a Catholic was cut almost in half.
[snip]
Mellman also discusses an interesting poll he helped construct, in which the pollsters asked half of their respondents whether they would support a candidate with certain characteristics, and asked the other half about another candidate with the exact same characteristics, with one difference. The first candidate was Baptist, the second candidate was Mormon. The Baptist had a huge advantage over the Mormon candidate, by about 20 points.
[snip]
However, more recent polls have attempted to fix the anonymity problem. A recent Time Magazine poll (read the original report here), for example, got to the heart of the question by asking respondents if they are less likely to vote for Mitt Romney specifically because he is a Mormon. The result is not as bad as some reporting on the poll has suggested. For example, while 30% of Republicans say they are less likely to vote for Romney because of his religion, fully 15% of other Republicans say that characteristic makes them more likely to vote for him. And while many have reported the finding that 23% of Republicans are “worried” by Romney’s Mormonism, the more important (but less-reported) number is that 73% say they hold no such reservations...
(Excerpt) Read more at romneyexperience.com ...
To hear them tell it; there are over 30,000,000 gays; too!
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I bsaw two cPersonages, whose brightness and dglory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved gSon. Hear Him!18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
I find this to be a problem in MOST churchs!
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INTRODUCTORY NOTE
The Pearl of Great Price is a selection of choice materials touching many significant aspects of the faith and doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These items were produced by the Prophet Joseph Smith and were published in the Church periodicals of his day.
The first collection of materials carrying the title Pearl of Great Price was made in 1851 by Elder Franklin D. Richards, then a member of the Council of the Twelve and president of the British Mission. Its purpose was to make more readily accessible some important articles that had had limited circulation in the time of Joseph Smith. As Church membership increased throughout Europe and America there was a need to make these items available. The Pearl of Great Price received wide use and subsequently became a standard work of the Church by action of the First Presidency and the general conference in Salt Lake City on October 10, 1880.
Several revisions have been made in the contents as the needs of the Church have required. In 1878 portions of the Book of Moses not contained in the first edition were added. In 1902 certain parts of the Pearl of Great Price that duplicated material also published in the Doctrine and Covenants were omitted. Arrangement into chapters and verses, with footnotes, was done in 1902. The first publication in double-column pages, with index, was in 1921. No other changes were made until April 1976, when two items of revelation were added. In 1979 these two items were removed from the Pearl of Great Price and placed in the Doctrine and Covenants, where they now appear as Sections 137 and 138. In the present edition some changes have been made to bring the text into conformity with earlier documents.
Following is a brief introduction to the present contents:
Selections from the Book of Moses. An extract from the book of Genesis of Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible, which he began in June 1830. See History of the Church, vol. 1, pp. 98-101, 131-139.
The Book of Abraham. A translation from some Egyptian papyri that came into the hands of Joseph Smith in 1835, containing writings of the patriarch Abraham. The translation was published serially in the Times and Seasons beginning March 1, 1842, at Nauvoo, Illinois. See History of the Church, vol. 4, pp. 519-534.
Joseph Smith—Matthew. An extract from the testimony of Matthew in Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible. See Doctrine and Covenants 45: 60-61 for the divine injunction to begin the translation of the New Testament.
Joseph Smith—History. Excerpts from Joseph Smith’s official testimony and history, which he prepared in 1838, and which was published serially in the Times and Seasons in Nauvoo, Illinois, beginning on March 15, 1842. See History of the Church, vol. 1, pp. 1-44, for the complete account.
The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A statement by Joseph Smith published in the Times and Seasons March 1, 1842, in company with a short history of the Church that was popularly known as the Wentworth Letter. See History of the Church, vol. 4, pp. 535-541.
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I didn’t suggest that the Church inflates it numbers. I simply pointed out the discrepancies between “member of record,” and those who self-identify. To count on votes from Mormons who simply aren’t there would be dangerous.
I will say this however, the LDS Church has a practice of making it appear that it’s growth is larger than it actually is. “In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley stated: “We are experiencing a combined growth of converts and natural increase of some 400,000 a year. Every single year that is the equivalent of 160 new stakes of 2,500 people each.” This statement has been widely quoted as evidence of the Church’s rapid growth. In fact, the Church has never yet experienced a net gain of 400,000 members in a single year, nor has there ever been a year in the history of the Church when 160 or more stakes were formed. The highest stake gains ever were of 142 in 1995 and 146 in 1996, which were up from annual gains of 32-78 over the preceding decade. Over the most recent five-year period forwhich data are available (1998-2003), the Church gained a total of 119 stakes, or an average of only 24 stakes per year. The low number of congregations and stakes being formed reflects fractional retention of converts.”
As far as your assertion that LDS Church growth in larger in other countries, we find this information from the article which appeared in the Miami Herald’s Mexico edition:
Thanks to converts like Gabriel and his neighbors in San Juan Guichicovi, Mexico now has the second-largest Mormon population in the world, after the United States. And it continues to grow. In 1990, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or LDS, counted 617,455 members here. Today, it reports a membership of 1,037,775: a 15 year growth of 68 percent. In Mexico City alone, LDS officials say they are adding 1,000 new members each month.
Apparently, in the 2000 census, people were asked to identify themselves in Mexico by religion. A book I am reading entitled, “El Fenomeno Religioso en el Occidente de Mexico” has results for the census. 88% of Mexicans consider themselves Catholics. Almost 5% consider themselves Evangelicals. They have a category called “Others” which includes Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. There were over One million people who categorized themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses, about 489,000 that considered themselves Seventh Day Adventists and only 205,000 people that consider themselves Mormons.
So after decades of missionary work in Mexico and all kinds of bragging about growth rates, the LDS badly trail Evangelicals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Adventists in members. They’ve hardly made any dent in the Catholic population. So much for the idea that Lamanites are going to blossom like a rose in Mexico.
Tant, How did you say it?...... there’s a small part of me that chuckles when I see this fear expressed in.... over inflated numbers.
Change that to “most Mormons” and I’ll agree with it. Some leaders felt that the US was going to crash and burn, deservedly, for much the same reasons the Southern States rebelled during the Civil War. States Rights issues, and the Federal government’s absolute inability to protect Mormons from their neighbors in the preceding decades.
That was the only “inaccuracy” I noted in your post.
I’ve never lived in Utah, and only been a member for about 12 years, but my grandmother joined shortly before my birth. My grandfather, her husband, was apparently RLDS as a youth. Complicates things a bit. It is undeniable that some Utah Mormons are less than tolerant of others, including non-Utah Mormons, but every church has people like that. My step-father the Baptist minister was one such. I’m pretty sure he’s barbecue, but I also know that there are many good and godly people who are Baptist. I’ve met some less-than-optimum among the non-Utah Mormons, too, as well. It don’t take all kinds, we just got all kinds. Just like the rest of y’all.
“Osage Orange could have made it easier for you by just giving you the link!
I guess if was too much effort for him!”
Not his fault I was blind.
Two years? More like 8. Not to mention that Presidents are elected for 4-year terms. In a couple of weeks, I start as an elementary school teacher, having done high school, jr. high school, and middle school, so far. You will write on the chalkboard 100 times... ;)
I pray every day for God to guide our public officials to do what is right. Same for our people. There are still a few good people in this country, good Christians, of all churches, despite what HSM might think about Mormons, so I doubt we will get the Sodom and Gomorrah treatment just yet. If I’m wrong about that, well, I’ll just have to try to endure to the end.
So is any Mormon who does not meet all the requirements to attend temple. Like me, currently. I’ve missed a lot of meetings, fallen behind in my tithing, and just generally not had a good last few years religiously.
If you want to go into a Mormon temple, do what I have to do. Tithe regularly, attend meetings, develop your testimony of the truth of the Book of Mormon (and the Bible), confess your sins, and demonstrate your worthiness to go to a holy place. That is what a temple is.
It’s not a matter of luck, its a matter of meeting the tenets of our faith.
“Does that actually happen, or was that a rumor?”
Rumor.
You have a real gift for hyperbole, Tantiboh. Unfortunately, it's easily seen for what it is.
“Speaking of Mormon Temples, here is a video of
Mormon Temple Rituals to bring everyone up to
speed...”
What makes you think that was actually filmed in a Mormon temple?
My reasoning is that Romney deserves an equal voice in the News. And if I were to move such articles automatically, then the opponents of Romney would have a mechanism to silence him on the political side of this forum.
In discussion with the other moderators, I have long pointed to the Mormon posters on the Religion Forum for their exceptional grace in responding to the anti-Mormon posters.
Of course there is much more hostility involved when anti and pro positions of candidates in a primary season are considered. But it is in Romney's best interest to meet fire with water, anxiety with peace and so on.
Please keep these considerations in mind when asking for a political thread to be moved to the Religion Forum.
Then you need to stay out of Baptist services, too, from what I recall of the Baptist churches I attended as a youth. Things may have changed since then, of course. I don’t feel guilty about drinking a beer. I just don’t drink it. I never really liked it in the first place, so it’s been no great sacrifice. Giving up black tea, now, that was hard!
Hm. I had a beer with my guys when they got promoted, sometimes. 1 beer. If I wasn’t driving. Usually, though, I had a Coke. I had a beer with my mother-in-law to celebrate the birth of my first daughter. I think I had, 4, maybe 5, beers, in the four years I lived in Germany. I joined the Church there about 7 months before we left, a year and a half or so after my daughter’s birth.
That’s wheat and tares. Tares are a grass that looks like wheat, but the seeds are very much smaller, and worthless for food. Chaff is the hull of the wheat seed, and has to be seperated from the wheat seeds before the grain is ground into flour.
OS<-—— goldmine of utterly useless information. My wife won’t play trivial pursuit with me, for some strange reason...
What to Expect at Sunday LDS Meetings
On the News/Activism forum. Coincidental, I guess.
Post #1 on that thread indicates that it was put in News intentionally.
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