Posted on 06/11/2007 2:37:07 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
Conservatives would bolt GOP over Rudy By: David Paul Kuhn June 11, 2007 04:57 PM EST
A growing number of influential social conservatives are speaking out against Rudy Giuliani, with some threatening that they will take flight from the Republican Party in 2008 if the former New York mayor is the GOP nominee.
Giuliani's support for abortion rights and gay rights has not to date prevented him from winning the support of a sizable number of socially conservative voters, according to polls. But the continued strength of his candidacy is causing alarm among leaders of conservative advocacy groups, many of which have been major players in Republican politics.
"Speaking as a private citizen, no, no, I could not support (Giuliani)," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, which has about a half-million members. "The 20 years I've been involved in politics, the life issue has been at the very top. How could I turn my back on that?"
Perkins said that should Giuliani win the nomination, he would vote for a third-party candidate who reflected his values. "It wouldn't be the first time," Perkins added in an interview last week.
Other prominent cultural conservatives to signal public opposition to Giuliani in recent weeks included James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Louis Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition, veteran activist and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer, and Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Like Perkins, Land has warned that he would not vote for a Republican ticket in 2008 if it were led by Giuliani. Others did not go that far, even as they made plain their wish that Giuliani be weeded out in the primaries.
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
The same ones who pouted and stayed home during the last election I suppose. And now they complain at what’s going on with liberals back in power.
Go figure.
We have had a pro-life POTUS for the past 6 years and I don’t see much has changed in the abortion issue. Rudy has made clear his SC appointments, other than that, what is there he or any prez can do?
Conservatives who pout and stay home and refuse to defeat the liberals are just as destructive as the liberals themselves. Really great for the country, huh? How is that any different than the libs who hate Bush to the point they are willing to sacrifice the entire nation til they get back total control.
Good luck starting up that purist party. You think the republican party needs you? Just as much as you need it, my friends.
I guess we are not unlike alot of people. In your world, your family is the traditional family. In my world, my family is the traditional family. There is nothing wrong with that. But never would I look to a politician to define traditional family. Nor would I base my vote on what Dobson or Bauer think. I am not fans of either.
Yep. I will not vote for a rhino. The only thing that will save America are Conservatives and a Conservative President. And lots of prayer.
All those things will happen if the Dems get in, and I hate to think of the nightmare that will ensue if the Dems put all those programs into action. It will take us the rest of the century to rectify it. Doesn’t everyone see that the best government is the one we started out with 200+ years ago?
How can letting Hillary or Obama get in there be of any use at all?
Look at the big picture, not single issues. Staying away from the polls is suicide.
Besides, Fred Thompson is going to be the man.
Yeah, I would bolt. The GOP hasn’t made me in the mood to vote lately. Get rid of Rooty and the Mehlman bunch, put up a conservative, and it might be better. Unless GWB and Congress pass the amnesty bill.
If that happens, the election will not matter anyway.
Naah. If he got the nomination, most would vote for him. This is all pre-nomination bluster.. Still, their voices will be heard; its all part of politics.
You've nailed it. Bush, and I'd add the liberal Repubican Congress we've dealt with the last few years. Maybe if they had governed conservatively, things would be different. Rudy might get reluntant conservative support. Though not from the most devoted of social conservatives. He would go against everything social conservatives have fought fifty years for.
As it is, I'd really like to see (no I wouldn't) republicans try to win in this climate when their natural base is furious with them, doesn't trusts them with a Liberal like rudy on the top of the ticket. I know some people think it doesn't matter, rudy will pull those votes elsewhere. Maybe he will. But Bush won with 51-48 percentages. He needs to do more then offset conservatives boycott. with Independents. he need to decimate the Democrats by taking millions of their own to his side. And I kind a of doubt those voters are interested. In the end, why elect a Liberal beholden to a party traditionlly more conservative when you can elect a Liberl beholden to liberals?
BTW, I won't be voting for Rudy. And, yeah, having seem the "big tent" in action for years whil conservatives get screwed with amnesty as the cherry, that's a huge chunk of the reason why.
“I’ve learned my lesson: fight like Hell for your true preference in the primaries, then suck it up, hold your nose and vote for the lesser of 2 evils in the General. At least if a guy from a party that is mostly in your corner wins, you and people like you get heard. With the avowed enemy in control, you don’t get spit.”
What Shall It Profit A (party) To Gain The Whole World And Lose (it’s) Soul?
The lesser of two evils is still evil. There is only one avowed enemy and both Hillary and Rudy serve him. I can’t think of anything more evil than killing unborn babies. We continue as a nation to turn our backs on Almighty God, we will have a whole new set of lessons to learn. The death of a once great nation comes to mind.
Right now, the GOP is the only party that is half ways standing with our founding fathers and our Creator. We lose that and I am afraid we are doomed as a nation. Rudy would lead us straight down that path.
My favorite RINO complaint ever is that conservatives who pout and stay home and refuse to defeat the liberals are just as destructive as the liberals themselves.
Not voting RINO isn’t the same as staying home. I’m through wasting my vote on RINOs, and I know I’m not the only one. I’ll vote every election for a conservative, even if I have to vote third party, but I’ll never vote for a RINO again, no matter what threats the RNC hacks issue.
You guys need new material, 'cause that dog won't hunt. Nominate a RINO, I stay home, that simple.
How's your wife?
Compared to what?
In this exceptional year, both parties have open primaries. In both primaries, each party will select its nominee, primarily by compare and contrast with the other candidates in that party. The closer each party gets to having a set nominee, the more each party will look over its shoulder at the other party, and ask the what-if question.
Once both nominees are chosen, then the comparison will be between the Republican and Democrat nominees. Bottom line, Guilliani will never be a candidate in the abstract. He will always be compared to other candidates, a factor this article wholly sets aside.
Congressman Billybob
I will bet that those people who say they will not back Rudy are also telling the pollsters the same thing. Since Rudy is the only one consistently beating the Dem’s we know his vote will only increase when the same “conservatives†contemplate a Clinton or Obama Presidency. Like they are really going to sit tight and reject some one who cut taxes government. Ran a law and order administration. Promises to appoint “strict constructionist judgesâ€, Threw Yassir Arafat off of public property. Ended porn in Times Square and did a whole lot of Conservative things just because they don’t like maybe 20% of his positions.
Most of those mentioned in the article are not politicians. They are average Americans expressing their opinions and trying to influence others, just like you and me. The only difference is that they are in positions where they have a better opportunity to be heard.
I base all my votes on what I think and believe not on what others tell me to do. And that includes anyone who says I have to vote for Rudy just so Hillary doesn’t win. I don’t expect a “perfect candidate” but I do expect them to hold certain values and core principles.
Of course. I agree.
Launching any third-party effort which has a snowball's chance of success (like Perot in 1992) is not like a Micky Rooney movie where he says, "Hey, kids, let's put on a show," and in the next scene they have sets, orchestra, and a nine-girl chorus line. And remember that Perot for all his wealth, and his relatively easy access to the ballot in all jurisdictions, took 21% of the vote, but only came close to winning exactly one Electoral College vote in Maine.
Any talk about a real third-party effort as of now is just a gum-flapping waste of time. Except for Bloomberg, and I don't think a Bloomberg campaign will play in Peoria.
Congressman Billybob
“I will bet that those people who say they will not back Rudy “
YOU LOSE!
So does Rudy
Aaah!! Common ground!:)
I wrote a note to Mel Martinez excoriating his support for the amnesty bill and he sent me a request from the R.N.C. asking for a donation.
He and they can shove it.
Lifelong Republican looking for a true conservative party without turds like Arlen Spector and Mel Martinez.
You, and those who hold this same attitude, are the biggest part of the problem we face politically. You allow the political class to do as they please with no accountability and no repercussions when they vote against your desires, or act counter to the best interest of the American people, like in the amnesty fight we are in now.
There is about 35% of the voting public in each camp. These voters vote for the party no matter what. The Republicans have so-called conservatives who would vote for Arlen Specter rather than Thomas Jefferson, because Specter is a Republican and Jefferson was a Democrat. On the Democrat side, they have a group who would vote for Zell Miller rather than Lincoln Chafee, because Miller is a Democrat and Chafee is a Republican.
The ruling political class loves these voters because they don’t have to listen to them. No matter how often the political class screws them, these voters bend over and grab their ankles again in the next election.
The battle in every election is to get out the vote of people who lean toward a party or candidate, and get the vote of issue voters. The 30% or so voters who either vote for either party, or who withhold their vote when dissatisfied, are the ones politicians have to court and motivate.
In 2000 Evangelicals didn’t turn out in their customary numbers and almost cost Bush the election. Rove knows this and spoke about it frequently after the 2000 election. Rove was determined to change that. In 2004, he made it a point to go after the Evangelical vote, including an unprecedented Republican push in the nation’s Black churches.
Evangelicals and other Christians responded by getting out and voting for Bush. These additional millions of votes included a record 16% of the Black vote in Ohio, just about all of which came from the Black churches because of issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc.
That 16% of the Black vote was not only almost double the percentage of Black votes the Republican historically got in presidential elections, it was more than double the Black vote Bush got in 2000. It was also more than Bush’s margin of victory in Ohio. It gave him the election. Without the Black Christian vote Bush would have lost Ohio and its 20 Electoral votes. Take those twenty votes from Bush and give them to Kerry and you have President Kerry no matter what happened in Florida.
In fact, remove the increase in the Evangelical turnout and Bush would not have won a second term. Rove worked on pushing those issues that motivate Evangelicals and it gave Bush a second term.
But, Rove and the party bosses wouldn’t have worked so hard on the Evangelical vote, if so many Evangelicals hadn’t stayed home in 2000.
Right now, the party bosses are telling the Senators they can screw the American people because there will be nobody else any better to vote for in the next election. They will just repeat the old mantra, “the Democrats are worse”, and expect the sheep to swallow it and vote for the candidate they are told is the lesser of two evils.
Likewise, the party bosses and the MSM are pushing Giuliani and trying to ram him down our throats by saying, “he’s not quite as bad as Hillary”.
Well, that only works if we let it work. People who declare, “I don’t like Giuliani, but will vote for him if he’s the nominee”, are really telling the political class, “we’ll just mindlessly vote for the party no matter what they do or who they nominate.”
O will not waste another vote on a liberal. I’ll stay in the party to try to nominate a conservative. But if the party nominates another liberal, I’ll get to vote against him twice, once in the primary and once in the general election where I’ll vote third party.
The same goes for any Senator or Congressman who votes for the Bush-Kennedy amnesty. I’ll vote against them in the primary and the general.
From now on, if a politician wants my vote, he has to earn it. I will never again vote for someone just because he is running as a Republican.
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