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Protestors Wrong on Vietnam Then and on Iraq Now, Group Says
CSNNEWS.com ^ | March 14, 2007 | Randy Hall

Posted on 03/14/2007 11:24:24 AM PDT by Lady J USA 1981

Protestors Wrong on Vietnam Then and on Iraq Now, Group Says By Randy Hall CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor March 14, 2007

(CNSNews.com) - When thousands of people gather in Washington, D.C., on Saturday to protest the war in Iraq, a group of Vietnam veterans hopes to take advantage of what it sees as an "unprecedented opportunity" to expose "the massive lies told by the war protesters of the '60s" that are being used again today.

Leonard Magruder, president of Vietnam Veterans for Academic Reform (VVAR), would like to see Vietnam veterans distribute fliers during the demonstration with "documented facts that show how the war protestors of the '60s lied, and by recycling the same arguments again on March 17, will be lying again."

"Holding onto and perpetuating myths has too great a potential for creating another lethal, paralyzing polarization," Magruder argued in a letter this week. "We cannot win the war against terror with the campus building towards a polarization that could again paralyze a national effort."

The VVAR president cited the Vietnam Veterans Against the War website, which says: "The 58,000 U.S. soldiers who lost their lives in Vietnam and the millions of Vietnamese who were killed, died in a criminal war. The connection between Vietnam and Iraq could not be more clear. Iraq is also a criminal war of aggression."

"There they are again! Those toothless old hags of the protests of the '60s: 'criminal,' 'aggression,'" Magruder declared. "You can hurl these charges back in their faces on March 17 by handing out copies" of articles available at the VVAR website.

One document Magruder points to, called "Vietnam and the Media," provides "documentation from 21 standard histories and commentaries on the Vietnam War on how the media transformed a strategic American victory into a defeat, betraying the war effort."

"It's time the nation realize who the true 'criminals' are: the ones who betrayed Southeast Asia to tyranny and genocide," Magruder said.

Though not a Vietnam veteran himself, Magruder has been dealing with the fallout of the war for more than 25 years. He vividly recalls discussing the Vietnam War with students as a psychology professor in Long Island in 1981.

At the end of the semester, Magruder asked his pupils whether war had been just or "immoral," as war protestors had argued. To his surprise, 85 percent of the students said Vietnam had been a just war.

"Puzzled as to why the students of the 80's could see the truth so clearly, that there was nothing 'immoral' about defending South Vietnam against Communist aggression, while the students of the 60's could not, the students concluded that faculties, to serve their own largely leftist and Marxist ideologies, had misinformed their students, who in turn used the misinformation to serve their own purposes, primarily to avoid the draft," he said.

Magruder decided to resign from the university and join with local veterans to help found the VVAR.

'Facts are facts'

As Cybercast News Service previously reported, several veterans' organizations announced that they will be present during the March 17 protests to protect memorials from being damaged after an anti-war protest on Jan. 27 left steps and pavement outside the U.S. Capitol spray-painted with anarchist symbols.

In addition, the "These Colors Don't Run" caravan led by the conservative group Move America Forward is taking an eight-day, 3,500-mile trip to arrive in Washington, D.C., in time to counter the anti-war protests, which coincide with the fourth anniversary of the launch of the Iraq war.

John Zutz, a national officer with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, told Cybercast News Service that the VVAR "can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want. If they want to 'Swift Boat' it, let them. The facts are the facts."

The massacre of My Lai "is a fact. It happened," Zutz said. The execution of Vietnamese civilians by a U.S. Army unit called Tiger Force "was a fact. That happened for more than a year. The U.S. committed atrocities. Oh sure, the Vietnamese did, too, but that's what war is about.

"Innocent people get killed in war, and they're getting killed in Iraq today," he added. "Abu Ghraib is a fact. Guantanamo Bay is a fact. You can't argue with those."

Nevertheless, Zutz said neither he nor most of the Vietnam veterans he knows will take part in the march in D.C., because they will instead be holding their own peace march and rally at Fort Bragg in Fayette, N.C.

When scheduling the protest in Washington, D.C., the activists at International A.N.S.W.E.R. "didn't bother to ask us if we had anything going on that weekend," he noted. "We do."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gatheringofeagles; iraq; moveamericaforward; thesecolorsdontrun; vietnam

1 posted on 03/14/2007 11:24:29 AM PDT by Lady J USA 1981
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To: Lady J USA 1981

see here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800582/posts


2 posted on 03/14/2007 11:27:47 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: Lady J USA 1981
"It's time the nation realize who the true 'criminals' are: the ones who betrayed Southeast Asia to tyranny and genocide," Magruder said.

It's time, indeed.

3 posted on 03/14/2007 11:28:54 AM PDT by T. Buzzard Trueblood ("left unchecked, Saddam Hussein...will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton)
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To: xcamel

Didn't relize it was posted elseware.. Ooops!


4 posted on 03/14/2007 11:32:07 AM PDT by Lady J USA 1981
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To: xcamel
Give it a rest.
5 posted on 03/14/2007 11:34:39 AM PDT by smoothsailing (http://www.gatheringofeagles.org/)
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To: xcamel

VVAW and one of their Charter members, Joh Kerry were and are still are traitors. They belong in the same box as Jane Fonda and should have all been tried for treason. Sorry about the emotion, but I lived through this.I thank the Swift Boat guys for telling the truth and saving the country.


6 posted on 03/14/2007 11:48:02 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: Old Retired Army Guy
You won't get any argument from me - I'm old enough to have had plenty of friends go over and come back in a box - and remember those who came back and were made to feel like they should have come back in a box.

I only noted that the story had been posted, with many comments.

7 posted on 03/14/2007 11:51:36 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel

My son is a Captain with the 1st SF Group (A Team Det. Commander) which is based at Fort Lewis, WA. He was transferred there from Ft Bragg this January. He said he gets really upset with the liberal bent of the Seattle media and the general reception he gets there as opposed to North Carolina. I am afraid he is getting a little bit of what we experienced during Vietnam, but not near as bad. Wouldn't hurt me feelings if we moved all bases from the "left coast".


8 posted on 03/14/2007 11:58:38 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: Lady J USA 1981

The VVAR president cited the Vietnam Veterans Against the War website, which says: "The 58,000 U.S. soldiers who lost their lives in Vietnam and the millions of Vietnamese who were killed, died in a criminal war. The connection between Vietnam and Iraq could not be more clear. Iraq is also a criminal war of aggression."

"There they are again! Those toothless old hags of the protests of the '60s: 'criminal,' 'aggression,'" Magruder declared. "You can hurl these charges back in their faces on March 17 by handing out copies" of articles available at the VVAR website.

One document Magruder points to, called "Vietnam and the Media," provides "documentation from 21 standard histories and commentaries on the Vietnam War on how the media transformed a strategic American victory into a defeat, betraying the war effort."
...........................................................
Iraq a criminal war? Only in the fantasies of fools.
...........................................................

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 16, 2002

Statement by the President





Today I have signed into law H.J. Res. 114, a resolution "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq." By passing H.J. Res. 114, the Congress has demonstrated that the United States speaks with one voice on the threat to international peace and security posed by Iraq. It has also clearly communicated to the international community, to the United Nations Security Council, and, above all, to Iraq's tyrannical regime a powerful and important message: the days of Iraq flouting the will of the world, brutalizing its own people, and terrorizing its neighbors must -- and will -- end. Iraq will either comply with all U.N. resolutions, rid itself of weapons of mass destruction, and in its support for terrorists, or it will be compelled to do so. I hope that Iraq will choose compliance and peace, and I believe passage of this resolution makes that choice more likely.

The debate over this resolution in the Congress was in the finest traditions of American democracy. There is no social or political force greater than a free people united in a common and compelling objective. It is for that reason that I sought an additional resolution of support from the Congress to use force against Iraq, should force become necessary. While I appreciate receiving that support, my request for it did not, and my signing this resolution does not, constitute any change in the long-standing positions of the executive branch on either the President's constitutional authority to use force to deter, prevent, or respond to aggression or other threats to U.S. interests or on the constitutionality of the War Powers Resolution. On the important question of the threat posed by Iraq, however, the views and goals of the Congress, as expressed in H.J. Res. 114 and previous congressional resolutions and enactments, and those of the President are the same.

Throughout the past months, I have had extensive consultations with the Congress, and I look forward to con-tinuing close consultation in the months ahead. In addition, in accordance with section 4 of H.J. Res. 114, I intend to submit written reports to the Congress on matters relevant to this resolution every 60 days. To the extent possible, I intend to consolidate information in these reports with the information concerning Iraq submitted to the Congress pursuant to previous, related resolutions.

The United States is committed to a world in which the people of all nations can live in freedom, peace, and security. Enactment of H.J. Res. 114 is an important step on the road toward such a world.

GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 16, 2002.

# # #





Return to this article at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021016-11.html


9 posted on 03/14/2007 12:06:43 PM PDT by smoothsailing (http://www.gatheringofeagles.org/)
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To: Lady J USA 1981



For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
October 2, 2002

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq





Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;

Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;

Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;

Whereas in 1998 Congress concluded that Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in "material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations" and urged the President "to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations" (Public Law 105-235);

Whereas Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;

Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;

Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;

Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;

Whereas the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001 underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations;

Whereas Iraq's demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself;

Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687, repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688, and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949;

Whereas Congress in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1) has authorized the President "to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolutions 660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677";

Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1)," that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and "constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region," and that Congress, "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688";

Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;

Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to "work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge" posed by Iraq and to "work for the necessary resolutions," while also making clear that "the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable";

Whereas the United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary;

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and

Whereas it is in the national security of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region;

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SEC. 1. SHORT TITLE.

This joint resolution may be cited as the "Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq".

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS

The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to--

(a) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and

(b) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to


(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION.

In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon there after as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, and

(2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS. --


(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION. -- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS. -- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS

(a) The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 2 and the status of planning for efforts that are expected to be required after such actions are completed, including those actions described in section 7 of Public Law 105-338 (the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998).

(b) To the extent that the submission of any report described in subsection (a) coincides with the submission of any other report on matters relevant to this joint resolution otherwise required to be submitted to Congress pursuant to the reporting requirements of Public Law 93-148 (the War Powers Resolution), all such reports may be submitted as a single consolidated report to the Congress.

(c) To the extent that the information required by section 3 of Public Law 102-1 is included in the report required by this section, such report shall be considered as meeting the requirements of section 3 of Public Law 102-1.

###





Return to this article at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html


10 posted on 03/14/2007 12:18:58 PM PDT by smoothsailing (http://www.gatheringofeagles.org/)
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

"John Zutz, a national officer with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, told Cybercast News Service that the VVAR "can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want. If they want to 'Swift Boat' it, let them. The facts are the facts."

"VVAW and one of their Charter members, Joh Kerry were and are still are traitors."

~~~~~~~~

In reference to your statement about the VVAW....I agree that the lot of them are STILL hung up on their 60's roots and Commie Sympathizer pasts.

However, there's a LOT of confusion about the various Vietnam Veterans' groups. I have been attacked on this site for mentioning the Vietnam Veterans of America in a good light. They are NOT the same organization:

http://www.vva.org/veteran.html

In FACT, I owe my adjudication of 100% Service Connected Disability in large part to the VVA...!!!

They have been the MOST active Service Organization in helping the Project SHAD/112 Veterans...who were used and abused in many cases a HUMAN TEST RATS for Bio-Chemical Weapons Development:

http://www1.va.gov/SHAD/

~~~~~~~~

I'm NOT accusing you personally of making this mistake. Just thought I'd take this opportunity to set the record straight about a GOOD organization:

Founded in 1978, Vietnam Veterans of America is the only national Vietnam veterans organization congressionally chartered and exclusively dedicated to Vietnam-era veterans and their families. VVA is organized as a not-for-profit corporation and is tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(19) of the Internal Revenue Service Code.

VVA'S FOUNDING PRINCIPLE
"Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another."

GOALS
VVA's goals are to promote and support the full range of issues important to Vietnam veterans, to create a new identity for this generation of veterans, and to change public perception of Vietnam veterans.

ORGANIZATION

Over 50,000 individual members

46 state councils

630 local chapters

SPECIAL PROGRAMS

Aggressively advocate on issues important to veterans

Seek full access to quality health care for veterans

Identify the full range of disabling injuries and illnesses incurred during military service

Hold government agencies accountable for following laws mandating veterans health care

Create a positive public perception of Vietnam veterans

Seek the fullest possible accounting of America's POW/MIAs

Support the next generation of America's war veterans

Serve our communities

FUNDING
Vietnam Veterans of America relies totally on private contributions for its revenue. VVA does not receive any funding from federal, state, or local governments.

~~~~~~

It is WRONG to say that the VVA and Swift Boat Veterans are at odds with each other:

"National Partners

During production, KCPT and I garnered the support of the Swift Boat Sailors Association, the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA), and Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund."

http://www.itvs.org/outreach/casestudy_bgsp.html


11 posted on 03/14/2007 1:37:19 PM PDT by JB in Whitefish
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

As a veteran of the Vietnam War from August of 1969 to January of 1971, serving as an infantry squad leader in a mechanized infantry company, and with another unit as a tank commander on an M48A3 tank; I am keenly interested in the distortions, lies, and half truths perpetuated about the Vietnam war by many of those who helped to undermine the US effort there. Much of the conventional understanding of the US involvement in the South East Asian conflict indicates a general disapproval of the United States war effort, and an acceptance of the oft regurgitated leftist conventional wisdom as to it's historical course and outcome. That is painting the American war effort in Vietnam as misguided at best and an imperialistic effort to establish SE Asian capitalistic hegemony at worst. The antiwar left is portrayed as being noble and idealistic rather than populated by a hard core that actively hoped and worked for a US defeat, the US government as destructive of basic civil liberties in its attempt to monitor their activities, and the North Vietnamese and Vietcong as nationalists who wished to preserve their unique culture against an imperialistic onslaught. The South Vietnamese government's struggle to survive a ruthless Communist assault while engaging in an unwarranted assault on human rights .while ignoring the numerous genocidal atrocities of the Vietcong (VC) and North Vietnamese Army (NVA) is also part of this narrative. The deceptive reporting of the Tet Offensive, the Communist's worse defeat among numberless hundreds of others was probably the most grievous deceit perpetuated by the Press.

The reason that the United States opposed nationwide elections that were to be held in accordance with the 1954 Geneva accords was due to the murder and intimidation campaigns carried out by Ho Chi Minh. This fact is in Professor R. J. Runnel's book Death by Government, in which he cites a low estimate of 15,000 and a high figure of 500,000 people in the “murder by quota” campaign directed by the North Vietnamese Communist Party Politburo that would have made the election a corrupt mockery. This campaign stipulated that 5% of the people living in each village and hamlet had to be liquidated, preferably those identified as members of the "ruling class." All told says Runnel, between 1953 and 1956 it is likely that the Communists killed 195,000 to 865,000 North Vietnamese. These were non combatant men, women, and children, and hardly represent evidence of the moral high ground claimed by many in the antiwar movement. In 1956, high Communist official Nguyen Manh Tuong admitted that "while destroying the landowning class, we condemned numberless old people and children to a horrible death." The same genocidal pattern became the Communists’ standard operating procedure in the South too. This was unequivocally demonstrated by the Hue Massacre, which the press did a great deal to downplay in its reporting of the Tet Offensive of 1968.

The National Liberation Front was the creation of the North Vietnamese Third Party Congress of September 1960, completely directed from North Vietnam. The Tet Offensive of 1968 was a disastrous military defeat for the North Vietnamese and that the VC were almost wiped out by the fighting, and that it took the NVA until 1971 to reestablish a presence using North Vietnamese troops as local guerrillas. The North Vietnam military senior commanders repeatedly said that they counted on the U.S. antiwar movement to give them the confidence to persevere in the face of their staggering battlefield personnel losses and defeats. The antiwar movement prevented the feckless President Lyndon Johnson from granting General Westmoreland's request to enter Laos and cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail or end his policies of publicly announced gradualist escalation. The North Vietnamese knew cutting this trail would severely damage their ability to prosecute the war. Since the North Vietnamese could continue to use the Ho Chi Minh Trail lifeline, the war was needlessly prolonged for the U.S. and contributed significantly to the collapse of South Vietnam. The casualties sustained by the NVA and VC were horrendous, (1.5 million dead) and accorded well with Gen. Ngyuen Giap’s publicly professed disdain for the lives of individuals sacrificed for the greater cause of Communist victory. They were as thoroughly beaten as a military force can be given the absence of an invasion and occupation of their nation. The Soviets and Chinese recognized this, and they put pressure on their North Vietnamese allies to accept this reality and settle up at the Paris peace talks. Hanoi's party newspaper Nhan Dan angrily denounced the Chinese and Soviets for "throwing a life bouy to a drowning pirate" and for being "mired on the dark and muddy road of unprincipled compromise." The North Viets intransigent attitude toward negotiation was reversed after their air defenses were badly shattered in the wake of the devastating B-52 Linebacker II assault on North Vietnam, after which they were totally defenseless against American air attack.

To this day the anti-war movement as a whole refuses to acknowledge its part in the deaths of millions in Laos and Cambodia and in the subsequent exodus from South East Asia as people fled Communism, nor the imprisonment of thousands in Communist re-education camps and gulags.

South Vietnam was NOT defeated by a local popular insurgency. The final victorious North Vietnamese offensive was a multidivisional, combined arms effort lavishly equipped with Soviet and Chinese supplied tanks, self-propelled artillery, and aircraft. It was the type of blitzkrieg that Panzer General Heinz Guederian would have easily recognized. I didn't recall seeing any barefoot, pajama-clad guerrillas jumping out of those tanks in the newsreel footage that showed them crashing through the gates of the presidential palace in Saigon. This spectacle was prompted by the pusillanimous withdrawal of Congressional support for the South Vietnamese government in the wake of the Watergate scandal, which particularly undermined this aspect of President Nixon’s foreign policy. It should be noted that a similar Communist offensive in the spring of 1972 was smashed, largely by US air power; with relatively few US ground troops in place. At the Paris Accords in 1973, the Soviet Union had agreed to reduce aid in offensive arms to North Vietnam in exchange for trade concessions from the US, effectively ending North Vietnams hopes for a military victory in the south. With the return of cold war hostilities in the wake of the Yom Kippur war after Congress revoked the Soviet's MFN trading status, the Reds poured money and offensive military equipment into North Vietnam. South Vietnam would still be a viable nation today were it not for this nation's refusal to live up to it's treaty obligations to the South Vietnamese, most important to reintervene should they invade South Vietnam.

There is one primary similarity to Vietnam. A seditious near traitorous core of anti-war protesters is trying to undermine U.S. efforts there with half-truths, lies, and distortions. In that respect, the war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam are very similar. A significant difference is that thus far the current anti-war movement has not succeeded in manifesting contempt for the American military on the part of the general U.S. public as it did in the Vietnam era.



When I was in Vietnam, I recall many discussions with my fellow soldiers about the course of the war in Vietnam and their feelings about it. Many, if not most felt that "We Gotta Get Outta this Place," to cite a popular song of the time by Eric Burden and the Animals, but for the most part they felt we should do it by fighting the war in a manner calculated to win it. I do not recall anyone ever saying that they felt the North Vietnamese could possibly defeat us on the battlefield, but to a man they were mystified by the U.S. Government’s refusal to fight in a manner that would assure military victory. Even though there was much resentment for the antiwar movement, and some (resentment) toward career professional soldiers, I never saw anyone who did not do his basic duty and many did FAR MORE THAN THAT as a soldier. Nineteen of my friends have their names on the Vietnam War Memorial Wall in Washington DC. They deserve to have the full truth told about the effort for which they gave their young lives. The U.S. public is not well served by half-truths and lies by omission about such a significant period in our history, particularly with their relevance toward our present fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.


12 posted on 03/14/2007 7:00:56 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

I am so very sorry to hear that. Please let him know there are civilians from liberal enclaves, a la Chicago, who really do support the US Military. This country is so very fortunate to have men such as your son. Please thank him for his service. And thank you for serving and bringing up another hero to carry on the tradition. It is appreciated. We are grateful.


13 posted on 03/14/2007 7:50:30 PM PDT by Chgogal (Vote Al Qaeda. Vote Democrat.)
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To: smoothsailing; All

Gathering of Eagles - Moonbat Survival Tips for March 17th
(Video Courtesy of Uncle Jimbo at Blackfive, who will be there)
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/186926.php


14 posted on 03/14/2007 9:16:08 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Stop Global Dhimming. Demand testicular fortitude from the hill. Call the crusade.)
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