Posted on 01/17/2007 2:41:38 PM PST by Issaquahking
How about two men who know when to take a stand? Hunter is looking more presidential all the time.
Good link.
Libertarian here I come .
For advocating pardoning jury convicted felons before the appeals process?
Your/his priorities are amiss.
See the link on post 19.
Bush is backing down from the terrorist eavesdropping program as well as still pushing amesty for illegals. It was only AT THE LAST MINUTE that he extended the tax breaks . His dad even gets me hot under the collar everytime I see him joking and smiling with Bill Clintoon.
Its time for W to get some balls and stop pandering and surrendering to the left . Look what it got us . A band of idiots running the country for at least the next two years and maybe more.
>>>>>"This one got immunity in order to testify against the agents and he is now suing OUR government for $5 million dollars. Is that the message we prefer to send?"<<<<<
9th Circus strikes again!
TT
Your thread post left out all the facts.
United States Attorney Johnny Sutton, Western District of Texas
MYTH VS. REALITY–THE FACTS OF WHY THE GOVERNMENT PROSECUTED AGENTS COMPEAN AND RAMOS
—————
Myth: THE AGENTS WERE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS
Reality: Securing our nation’s borders can be a tough and dangerous job. Often, Border Patrol agents find themselves in difficult and dangerous situations. We give them guns and allow them to defend themselves. Border Patrol training allows for the use of deadly force when an agent reasonably fears imminent bodily injury or death. An agent is not permitted to shoot an unarmed suspect who is running away.
There was no credible evidence that the agents were in a life-threatening situation or that Aldrete, the Mexican alien, had a weapon that would justify the use of deadly force. In fact, Border Patrol Agent Juarez, who was at the scene, testified at trial that he did not draw his pistol because he did not believe there was a threat. He also testified that Aldrete did not have a weapon and was almost to Mexico when Agent Compean began firing at him.
In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.
—————
Myth: THE GOVERNMENT LET A DRUG SMUGGLER GO FREE
Reality: My office would have much preferred to see Aldrete convicted and sent to prison for his crimes. We are in the business of putting guys like Aldrete behind bars. In fact, this office leads the nation in the number of drug smuggling cases we prosecute. Because the agents could not identify him, found no fingerprints, could not tie him to the van and did not apprehend him after shooting him, the case against Aldrete could not be proven.
—————
Myth: THESE BORDER PATROL AGENTS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED
Reality: The crimes committed by these agents rise to the level of felonies and are not mere administrative oversights. This was not a simple case of discharge of a firearm that was not reported. The truth of this case is that Agents Compean and Ramos shot 15 times at an unarmed man who was running away from them and who posed no threat.
This office cannot ignore these agents’ crimes just because the person they shot turned out to be a drug smuggler. Our system of justice requires that a person be tried in a court of law before he is punished. We do not permit police officers to summarily punish those whom the officers think have committed crimes. A police officer cannot shoot at an unarmed suspect who does not pose an immediate serious threat to the life of the officer or a bystander.
In order to maintain the rule of law, federal prosecutors cannot look the other way when law enforcement officers shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, then lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false.
—————
Myth: ALDRETE HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING MORE DRUGS INTO THE UNITED STATES
Reality: Aldrete has not been subsequently arrested for drug smuggling. Our office is in the business of prosecuting drug traffickers and alien smugglers. We are on the front lines of this battle and we aggressively prosecute these criminals every day in court. In fact, the Western District of Texas leads the nation in the number of individuals we prosecute for illegally smuggling drugs into this country. If we had a provable case against Aldrete, we would prosecute him.
—————
Myth: THE GOVERNMENT GAVE ALDRETE BLANKET IMMUNITY FOR HIS CRIMES
Reality: Agent Compean failed to arrest Aldrete when he attempted to surrender; instead, Compean tried to hit Aldrete with the butt of his shotgun, at which time Aldrete began to run towards the border. The agents shot at him 15 times, hitting him once, knocking Aldrete to the ground.
Compean and Ramos chose not to walk over to the wounded Aldrete and arrest him; rather, they re-holstered their guns, turned around and left the scene. When Aldrete then got back to Mexico without having been apprehended and identified, there was no longer any way to tie him to the load of marijuana, except through his own admissions.
Prosecutors promised Aldrete they would not use his truthful statements and testimony to prosecute him for the events that occurred on Feb. 17, 2005. Prosecutors around the country routinely make similar representations to obtain crucial testimony. This type of “use immunity” does not give blanket immunity for any crimes he may have committed or may commit in the future. If there were other admissible evidence besides his own statements sufficient to convict him, he could be prosecuted for the offense he describes.
As a practical matter, the promise to Aldrete gave up very little since the case against him was not prosecutable. There was no way to prosecute Aldrete while he was in Mexico. He could not have forced him to come back to the United States to be prosecuted, and there was no evidence against him until he agreed to cooperate.
—————
Myth: ALDRETE HAD A GUN AND THE AGENTS ONLY FIRED IN SELF DEFENSE
Reality: Trial testimony from other Border Patrol agents who were at the scene and who arrived shortly after the shooting shows that this is not true. Testimony further revealed that Agents Compean and Ramos never took cover nor did they ever warn the other agents to take cover. This action demonstrates that they did not perceive a threat.
In his statement to investigators, Compean admitted that Aldrete had attempted to surrender with both hands open and in the air.
Had Agents Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete was a threat, they would not have abandoned him after the shooting and they would have warned their fellow agents who arrived at the scene to stay out of the open while an armed suspect was on the loose. If the agents had believed that the shooting was justified then they would have left the crime scene undisturbed and let the investigation absolve them.
The agents knew that Aldrete did not have a weapon and they knew he posed no threat to them as he fled. Agent Juarez also testified that Aldrete was surrendering to Compean with his hands open and empty palms turned to Compean.
—————
Myth: THE AGENTS WERE NOT SURE OF WHAT THEY SAW BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT
Reality: The events of Feb. 17, 2005, occurred at approximately 1:00 P.M MT.
—————
Myth: JOHNNY SUTTON IS AN OVERZEALOUS PROSECUTOR WHO IS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LAW
Reality: These agents were found guilty by a unanimous jury in a United States District Court after a trial that lasted more than two and a half weeks.
The two agents were represented by experienced and aggressive trial attorneys, both of whom vigorously challenged the Government’s evidence through cross examination.
Both agents told their stories from the witness stand and had full opportunities to explain their version of events and to offer their own evidence. The jury heard everything including the defendants’ claims of self defense. The problem for Agents Compean and Ramos is that the jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.
—————
Myth: THESE AGENTS ARE FACING TOO MUCH TIME IN FEDERAL PRISON
Reality: Congress determined the penalties imposed on Compean and Ramos by setting the punishment for discharging a firearm during a crime of violence at a mandatory minimum of ten years (on top of any other sentence imposed). Congress did not make an exception for law enforcement officers.
—————
Myth: THE DRUG SMUGGLER WAS AWARDED A GREEN CARD
Reality: Aldrete was not given a green card which would enable him to have permanent legal resident status in this country. A military physician in the United States removed the bullet from Aldrete because it was an important piece of evidence and because the law requires the government to render such assistance. In order to have the bullet removed, meet with federal investigators and to testify in court in El Paso, he was entitled to come into the United States on a limited basis within a limited geographical area and only for those purposes. The last time he was legally allowed to enter the United States was in February 2006.
—————
Myth: ALDRETE NEVER HAD HIS HANDS UP AND WAS NOT ATTEMPTING TO SURRENDER
Reality: In their sworn testimony, Agent Compean and Agent Juarez both testified that Aldrete did have his hands in the air in an effort to surrender.
—————
Myth: COMPEAN WAS BLOODIED FROM A STRUGGLE WITH ALDRETE
Reality: Trial testimony showed that the only blood on Agent Compean was between his thumb and forefinger and was a result of him improperly holding his weapon. When asked if he was injured, he said “no” and when further asked if he wanted to file a report for his injury, he again said “no.”
—————
Myth: THESE AGENTS DID NOT REPORT THE SHOOTING TO SUPERVISORS BECAUSE THE SUPERVISORS WERE ON THE SCENE OF THE SHOOTING
Reality: The trial testimony of the defendants, fellow Border Patrol agents who were on the scene and who arrived shortly thereafter, as well as taped radio communications showed that there were no supervisors at the scene at the time of the shooting. The agents knew they must report any discharge of a firearm and had just received training to this effect the day before this shooting. Further, Agent Ramos was a Border Patrol firearms instructor and a member of the evidence recovery team. He was well aware of this requirement as he had taught this to other agents. They did not report the discharge
because they knew the shooting was not justified.
Furthermore, based on their training and experience, they were aware of what law enforcement resources would be dispatched to the crime scene to investigate a shooting, including sector evidence team, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and state and local law enforcement.
—————
Myth: ILLEGAL ALIENS DO NOT HAVE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
Reality: The courts have held that the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protects all persons in the United States whether they are here legally or illegally. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment to shoot an unarmed person who poses no threat to the shooter. This law applies regardless of immigration status.
—————
Myth: AGENT RAMOS CLAIMS THAT THE BULLET EXTRACTED FROM ALDRETE MIGHT NOT HAVE COME FROM HIS SERVICE REVOLVER
Reality: Agent Ramos stipulated and agreed before trial that the bullet extracted from Aldrete came from his service weapon. Independent forensic analysis also showed that the bullet extracted from Aldrete matched Agent Ramos’ weapon.
—————
Myth: AGENT RAMOS WAS BORDER PATROL AGENT OF THE YEAR
Reality: Agent Ramos has never received any formal recognition or award for being the Border Patrol Agent of the year. In fact, he has been arrested on at least two occasions for domestic abuse and was formally disciplined for conduct unbecoming a federal officer.
—————
But...but...but...they're Heroes!
OK, I can give four reasons why President Bush should pardon these agents.
1. It will please his base.
2. Pardoning two agents named Jose Compean and Ignacio Ramos can hardly damage him with the Latino vote. In fact, it could help distinguish honest Latino citizens doing their jobs from illegal immigrants and drug smugglers.
3. One of the duties of a leader is to stand up for his subordinates when they do the right thing. This is especially important if you want the respect and service of such essential people as police, military, and border agents, who risk their lives for their country.
4. It's the right thing to do.
While back I visited your home page and it prompted me to purchase Col Grossman's book "On Killing"
I should have read it before giving it to my Son
TT
CNN's Lou Dobbs just showed a press conference where Republican congressmen were expressing their outrage at the failure to pardon.
Congressman Walter Jones made the point that over Christmas the President pardoned five drug dealers but refuses to even acknowledge letters asking him to pardon Border Patrol agents who shot a drug dealer/illegal alien.
U.S. Department of Justice
U.S. Attorney’s Office
Western District of Texas
Johnny Sutton, U.S. Attorney
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Shana Jones, Special Assistant
October 23, 2006
Daryl Fields, Public Information Officer (210) 384-7452
RESPONSE OF UNITED STATES ATTORNEY JOHNNY SUTTON TO SENTENCING OF BORDER PATROL AGENTS COMPEAN AND RAMOSIn my opinion, United States Border Patrol agents are some of America’s most unsung heroes. They have an enormously difficult job. They routinely go up against drug traffickers and alien smugglers often in the middle of the night in some of the most remote and inhospitable areas of the United States. At times, they face great danger. The law recognizes that agents will make mistakes, and the government takes responsibility for good faith mistakes made in the line of duty. But no agent is given license to willfully shoot an unarmed, fleeing suspect in the back simply because the job is difficult, dangerous, or important.
The simple truth of this case is that Agents Compean and Ramos shot 15 times at an unarmed man who was running away from them and posed no threat. They lied about what happened, covered up the shooting, conspired to destroy the evidence and then proceeded to write up and file a false report.
Agent Compean and Ramos were not railroaded by some over-zealous prosecutor, they were unanimously found guilty by a jury in a United States Federal District Court after a trial that lasted more than two and a half weeks. The two agents were represented by experienced and aggressive trial attorneys, both of whom vigorously challenged the Government’s evidence through cross examination. Both agents told their stories from the witness stand and had full opportunities to explain their version of events and to offer their own evidence. The jury heard everything including the defendant’s claims of self defense. The problem for Mr. Compean and Mr. Ramos is that the jury did not believe their stories because they were not true.
The trial evidence showed that around 1:00 p.m. Aldrete (the Mexican alien) initially ran from the agents, but surrendered with his empty hands raised over his head after Agent Compean pointed his shotgun at him. As Agent Compean tried to push Aldrete down to the ground with the butt of his shotgun, Compean tripped and fell and Aldrete took off again toward the Rio Grande River and Mexico. Compean chased Aldrete firing at him with his pistol fourteen times, pausing once to reload and then shoot some more. Agent Ramos shot once and struck Aldrete in the buttocks. Neither agent made any further effort to apprehend him. After the shooting, Compean and Ramos decided to lie to their supervisors about the shooting and picked up and threw away the fired shell casings. Next they filed a false investigative report leaving out any mention of the confrontation with the alien.
If Compean and Ramos truly believed Aldrete was a threat, why did they abandon him after shooting him? And if they truly believed the shooting was justified, why did they not report it, leave the scene undisturbed, and let the investigation absolve them? The answers to these questions are simple. The agents knew that Aldrete did not pose a threat as he fled, they knew the shooting was unjustified and unlawful, and they knew an investigation would incriminate them. So they chose to cover up their crime. In America, law enforcement officers do not get to shoot unarmed suspects who are running away, lie about it to their supervisors and file official reports that are false. That is a crime and prosecutors cannot look the other way.
My office would have much preferred to see Aldrete convicted and sent to prison for his crimes. We are in the business of putting guys like him in the penitentiary. We do it every day. But since the agents could not identify him, found no fingerprints, could not tie him to the van and did not apprehend him after shooting him, the case against Aldrete could not be proved. The agents' criminal behavior, lies and efforts to conceal their crime destroyed their credibility before any jury.
Confronted with the willful and illegal use of deadly force by experienced Border Patrol agents, and insufficient evidence to prosecute the marijuana violation, prosecutors promised Aldrete they would not use his truthful statements and testimony to prosecute him. This type of “use immunity” is authorized by federal statute, and federal prosecutors around the country routinely make similar representations to obtain crucial testimony. As a practical matter, the promise to Aldrete gave up very little, but allowed us to investigate a serious crime of violence. Contrary to the claims of Compean, Ramos and others, this does not make the border less secure. Allowing lawless and wanton violence by even two Border Patrol agents to go unaddressed only invites further escalation of violence along the border.
Finally, Congress determined the penalties imposed on Compean and Ramos, by setting the punishment for discharging a firearm during a crime of violence at imprisonment for at least ten years, on top of any other sentence imposed. Although the penalty is stiff, Congress intended to deter and severely punish the unlawful use of guns and made no exception for law enforcement officers. If we are to demand that the laws be followed on our Southwest border we must be prepared to apply them to our own agents when they willfully and intentionally violate them.
###
Bush would look more like Clinton if he waits until his last day in office to make pardons for these fellows.
The way things are going, I would not be surprised to see the President give a pardon to Bill Clinton for any and all crimes and neglect these Federal agents entirely.
Check out this poll
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/10773809/detail.html
So far it's 7772 for pardon & 227 against= 97%for
Who's the moonbat???
Jose Compean and Ignacio Ramos were convicted in a court in El Paso, Texas, for shooting and wounding a Mexican drug smuggler.
False. They were convicted of Obstruction of Justice.
The moonbat is the one that reacts to feelings and not FACTS.
So is OJ to many
Should Bush pardon him?
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