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VCrisis No More (Venezuelans give up)
VCrisis ^ | 12/24/2006 | Aleksander Boyd

Posted on 12/31/2006 9:15:19 AM PST by cll

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After four years of insight on the Venezuelan situation, Alek Boyd gives up swimming against the current that is his countrymen.

Thank you for your hard work, Alek.

And Venezuela, good luck to you.

1 posted on 12/31/2006 9:15:22 AM PST by cll
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To: proud_yank; StJacques

Ping


2 posted on 12/31/2006 9:18:17 AM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: cll

-bflr-


3 posted on 12/31/2006 9:49:58 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: cll

Mexico's oil was supposed to bring something like nirvana to Mexico, too. No wonder the left doesn't want us drilling for it. You never know who will come out on top.


4 posted on 12/31/2006 10:11:27 AM PST by gcruse (http://garycruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: cll
Venezuelans in general are shallow, materialistic, snobbish, but man how they love the freedom to do whatever they want at any given time.

Having been married to one, I can attest to this fact!

5 posted on 12/31/2006 10:55:36 AM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: cll
Behold the birth of the Venezuelan nomenklatura. This isn't an oil royalty but a full-blown manifestation of the principal weakness of socialism - the tendency of a New Class to form and how very pleasant it can be to be in it! Bakunin warned of this in his debates with Marx, Kropotkin named it as it happened after the Russian revolution, and a fellow named Djilas codified it before he was purged by Tito. Trotsky wrote about it in exile. Hayek chronicled it in The Road To Serfdom

Fueled by the prospect of essentially unending oil wealth, this situation can continue for a very long time. The cost is nominal for the inhabitants - class and party loyalty. And when socialism falls these folks are the last to go and the first to rise up again in the form of robber barons, as a cursory examination of the ex-Soviet Union will immediately reveal.

Should the oil wealth diminish, and it will eventually, for the appetite of the New Class always exceeds its means, then it becomes insular and predatory. At that point it must have solidified control over the state means of coercion or it will fall. There we have party armies defending class interests against the population at large. Mugabe's Zimbabwe is a case in point. Chavez has already made moves in this direction.

The predation of the New Class also manifests itself in a desire to export revolution in order to feed its appetite for power and provide the necessary means to keep its members in the style to which they've become accustomed. To a degree this is the reason the Wahhabi clerics are currently so fond of expansionism - it isn't all about religion, and they are very definitely the recipients of unearned oil wealth redistributed their direction by Islamic charity. Why not the world? What else do they have to do?

All of this is a result of the ability of the capitalist West to generate an astounding level of wealth. As long as the West continues to provide it, the New Class will spend it, and they'll happily kill the goose that lays the eggs because they don't think it exists.

6 posted on 12/31/2006 10:57:53 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: cll
I guess my solution for Venezuela is to simplistic. That is dump that commie bastard as soon as possible. If you can't, to me, that means only two things. The people there want him in power or he is too powerful to remove. If it's the latter, the man is a dictator and who's fault is that. Those poor Venezuelans that just want to be free? I believe the word we are looking for is "apathy".
7 posted on 12/31/2006 11:03:53 AM PST by fish hawk (. B O stinks. That would be body odor and Barak Obama)
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To: operation clinton cleanup
--amusingly enough, every Venezuelan that I became even casually acquainted with in the six months I lived there also commented at some time or another with some variation of "we are lazy and don't like to work"---
8 posted on 12/31/2006 11:09:26 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: cll

For what its worth, I have said that the primary reason Venezuela's opposition parties have been unable to really coalesce against Chavez is that, at bottom, they agree with him. They know he is a bad guy, but they are unable to explain why he is a bad guy philosophically.

The natural political philosophy of Venezuela and indeed latin america in general is a kind of populism that sometimes manifests itself as leftist government, sometimes rightist, usually a combination of the two as now.

Although Chavez claims to be a revolutionary, he is really more of the same, just in a higher dose. He rails against the "neo-liberalism" that has supposedly destroyed the countyr, his name for free market economy, but Venezuela has never known a free market economy, it has always been a centralized economy in which the major resources are government controlled, which means that they are controlled by what ever elite are able best to manipulate the government.

The country was wrecked by other populists trying to do what populists do. They nationalized the oil industry in the seventies, and the result was economic stagnation. For years the government has robbed the oil industry to pay for its social programs, and the result has been entirely predictable, a one industry country, a people angered that they could be so poor in a country so supposedly rich, without any clear understanding that a country can not ever be rich with only one state-owned industry to pay the bills.

When Chavez launched his coup, the country went wild with adoration, and this included the political elite, who fell all over themselves trying to out-Chavez Chavez, trying to capture his popularity by attacking the banks, attacking what private business there is, attacking what foreign investment there is, and the result was to drive the country into the ground at an even faster rate.

Chavez stepped onto the stage, promising to throw out the constitution, blaming a non-existent "free enterprise" for the country's ills, and the people went for it in a landslide, the traditional parties collapsed, because none of them could explain why he was wrong. They could not because they agreed with him.

Even the opposition basically agree with him. They have faced him bravely because they know he is a dictator, they know he is a murderer, but they also feel betrayed philosophically because at heart they agree with the vision he promised. Venezuela is populated by populists left to right, top to bottom, and as a result who ever rules, who ever is overthrown, over the long haul the result is the same.

At some point you have to decide, either you love the country, and you do the best you can with what opportunities the system affords you, or you leave and start your little company in Miami or Los Angeles. If you stay in Caracas, you can do very well; populist systems are full of contradictions and if you are well connected you can do very well.

Chavez is not an aberration. He is a very Venezuelan throwback to a time everyone thought was past. That, and the mafia is more naked than usual is all.


9 posted on 12/31/2006 11:53:43 AM PST by marron
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To: Billthedrill
Great thoughts, BilltheDrill.

It's hard to be optimistic for any society, even our own, in the face of the kind of societal undertow you describe.

Someday I should do more reading on social history of republics. Obviously Gibbon deserves a more extensive read, as Rome remains the best parallel, at least that I can think of. Sobering to realize how rare and short lived most republics are in history.

What would you recommend?
10 posted on 12/31/2006 12:58:57 PM PST by tsomer
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To: fish hawk

"I believe the word we are looking for is "apathy"."

Looking into the recesses of my mind, I think it was locked who mentioned that some people suffer from the "fear of liberty". Liberty is too big of a responsibility and some people don't wanted. They rather have their lives run by somebody else (as long as there is food on the table).


11 posted on 12/31/2006 1:17:23 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: cll

Dad always said: "People get the kind of government they deserve."


12 posted on 12/31/2006 1:19:52 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: cll; kanawa; jazusamo; Thunder90; Hill of Tara; Victoria Delsoul; Army Air Corps; monkeywrench; ...


PING – Hugo is at it again!

Please FReepmail me if you would like on/off the Hugo/Venezuela Ping list.

HugoPing Archive

13 posted on 12/31/2006 1:21:49 PM PST by proud_yank (Socialism - An Answer In Search Of A Question For Over 100 Years)
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To: cll

locked = Locke


14 posted on 12/31/2006 1:22:38 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: marron; Billthedrill

Well stated, both.


15 posted on 12/31/2006 1:25:36 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: cll
You made me think of something that is true and pathetic. I have a real good friend who had a girl friend that just loved him and let him do whatever he wanted, when he wanted and never complained. One day he told me he would like to have someone who "would just take over my life, make all the decisions and run things". He met one, left his girl friend and married a control freak. Now he is told where, when , and how to wipe is butt. He complains to me now and then and I just laugh at him. His wish came true. (nothing to do with this thread but wont help some men here to read this) LOL
16 posted on 12/31/2006 1:46:34 PM PST by fish hawk (. B O stinks. That would be body odor and Barak Obama)
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To: fish hawk

"nothing to do with this thread"

Hey, it's the same thing but in a larger scale.


17 posted on 12/31/2006 2:00:37 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: tsomer
Many thanks for a very flattering question - Gibbon is an incredible read - I try to go through The Decline and Fall on a yearly basis. Don't always make it. I love Tacitus's Annals and a fascinating volume by Niccolo Machiavelli entitled Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livy - known popularly only as the Discourses. Old Nick, a fervent republican, was thinking of this stuff long before it was popular. Another is Ibn Kaldun's Muqaddimah, which details the historical process and evolution of government from the point of view of a brilliant Arab intellectual.

OK, it's a weird list. Great stuff, though. Happy New Year!

18 posted on 12/31/2006 6:13:06 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: cll

As a card-carrying guy, I had to look up this "Comandante Lina Ron" and answer the question: hot or not?

http://www.reconocelos.com/data/media/1/linaron.jpg

Before you click the link, the answer is: not. She's a bowser.

Why did I expect any different from a "revolutionary chick"? Usually it means she's rebelling against bourgeois concepts like bathing and pit shaving.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F


19 posted on 01/01/2007 9:28:34 AM PST by Criminal Number 18F (Build more lampposts... we've got plenty of traitors.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F

Yikes.


20 posted on 01/01/2007 10:04:40 AM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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