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1 posted on 12/31/2006 6:25:31 AM PST by A. Pole
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To: Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; FreedomPoster; Red Jones; Pyro7480; ...
"Most innovation does not come from some disembodied laboratory," said Stephen S. Cohen, [...] "In order to innovate in what you make, you have to be pretty good at making it — and we are losing that ability."

Free trade bump

2 posted on 12/31/2006 6:26:49 AM PST by A. Pole (M. Boskin: "It doesn't make any difference whether a country makes potato chips or computer chips!")
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To: A. Pole

Wow...the article appears to have missed the whole part about unions driving the cost of labor up so that it makes a lot more sense to make your goods in countries where there are no unions.


3 posted on 12/31/2006 6:29:47 AM PST by Constitutional Patriot (Socialism is anti-American, and Democrats are socialists!!!)
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To: A. Pole
"at some point we will go below critical mass and then the center of innovation will shift outside the country and that will really begin a decline in our living standards."

Welcome to the Global Economy. This is what it's all about - bringing down this great nation. History will once again shake its head and say WHY didn't they see this one coming? Who will bail out the US when it goes down?

6 posted on 12/31/2006 6:31:24 AM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: A. Pole
I'll add, who makes the money from a music CD?

The artist and the label or the CD manufacturer.

Clearly it is the former. The same goes for DVDs.
7 posted on 12/31/2006 6:32:33 AM PST by DB
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To: A. Pole

Ahhhh. A life of leisure for all Americans!


11 posted on 12/31/2006 6:37:08 AM PST by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: A. Pole
Detroit is a terrible example. We all know of the problems Detroit has had for decades. Quality, cost, and desirability are attributes Detroit has pretty consistently lost on for three decades.

If you don't produce a product people want in a capitalist economy, you will lose out to those who do.

Had we lost our innovation before the Japanese showed us up in the 80s? No, we still had all those people here.

We just have problems with stupid management and stupid unions, further complicated by stupid government supporting the stupid system.
13 posted on 12/31/2006 6:37:40 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: A. Pole

And we gripe when the Asian producers, particularly in China, copy our technology and designs, and send us cheap knock-off imitations...

Guess where they got the information on how to make those things...duh, we hired them to produce them in the first place. Give a professional burglar your house plans with all your valuable secrets marked plus the key to the front door and walk away, don't complain that your house is cleaned out when you return...


21 posted on 12/31/2006 6:45:10 AM PST by TheBattman (I've got TWO QUESTIONS for you....)
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To: A. Pole

"They are imported now, and the skills required to make them are disappearing in the United States."

BS. Americans can't weld and turn bolts? Freakin' NYT alarmist BS article.

I'm sorry you have trouble making a living. My people are doing great. But then again, we do stuff about it other than complain on FR.


23 posted on 12/31/2006 6:47:15 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: A. Pole
"In order to innovate in what you make, you have to be pretty good at making it — and we are losing that ability."

Minor point that is glossed over here - you can make something without having to make it in high volume production which incurs huge startup costs and high risk.

30 posted on 12/31/2006 6:52:36 AM PST by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: A. Pole


This is a silly argument.

Designing things and making them are two different issues entirely. Furthermore, when designing things, there are perhaps two or three people that actually have the skills to do it in any particular company. It's not like if a refrig is made in brazil that the entire USA can't made a fridge now. There will ALWAYS be people in the USA that will be able to make anything. Their salary will simply rise if there is brain drain.


33 posted on 12/31/2006 6:56:28 AM PST by Malsua
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To: A. Pole
Whatever will America do without the buggy whip industry?

L

38 posted on 12/31/2006 6:58:43 AM PST by Lurker (History's most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: A. Pole
I have two words or maybe one IPOD.

This little device with all the creative accessories and the web based download system coupled with great marketing and imaging has produced phenomenal results for an American Company that manufacturers nothing in the USA.

One can say that this will eventually be copied, but look at Microsoft, one of the world's wealthiest companies with arguably the best distribution on earth cannot come up with a device to compete.

The challenge that Apple has is continuing to innovate.

It can and will be done right here in the good ol USA.

39 posted on 12/31/2006 6:59:12 AM PST by GWB00 (Barbara Streisand barely made it out of high school.)
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To: A. Pole
I worked supporting equipment for a US manufacturer that moved things overseas. This is not a strategy for success. Yes, overhead drops, but not nearly as much as one would hope. The engineers and the manufacturing jobs go, but the bureaucracy and the admin jobs at minimum remain. Equipment support staff end up duplicating the overseas efforts in order to support their customer base. Travel and shipping costs skyrocket. Customer service drops far below acceptable levels. You go from being able to get a part ovenight to 6 week lead times because support parts now compete with "just in time" shipment parts for manufacturing that have to clear customs.

This outsourcing can work with really high volume durable goods or throw away stuff. The problem comes when the cookie cutter MBA's try to shoe horn every industry into the management fad of the day while never even glancing up from the spread sheet.

44 posted on 12/31/2006 7:02:11 AM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: A. Pole

Wisconsin is full of manufacturers. My little town and its surrounding area has foundrys, finishers, wood/paper mills, furniture and window manufacturers and a hugh HVAC factory. We have a shortage of welders up here.


47 posted on 12/31/2006 7:05:32 AM PST by rabidralph (Happy New Year, y'all!)
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To: A. Pole
The key is, if we keep exporting jobs, then who will have the money to buy the very things we innovate?

The Chicoms?

The Ruskies might be proven correct...they will bring us down "without firing a shot".

And yes, to avoid taxes and high union wages, it IS cheaper for companies to have the labor performed elsewhere. Companies are moving to Mexico in droves, yet, the Mexicans are still coming up here to suck up our tax money.

It's a shame when a company can have it made overseas, ship it over here, and market it, and STILL make more profit than having Americans build it. A damn shame.

Thanks for nothing, politicians.
48 posted on 12/31/2006 7:06:44 AM PST by FrankR (Atlas will shrug sooner than you think...)
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To: A. Pole

Already American society is re-organizing to cope with a declining standard of living. Young people are taking longer to leave home, if they ever do. Out of financial necessity, it will become common for multiple generations to live in the same house, reverting to the historical pre-World War II norm.

Increasingly, many will never own a home, spending a lifetime in an apartment or trailer. Squatting and shanty towns will become ubiquitous. Violence will spread, as the new white underclass clashes with Hispanic immigrants. For the first time in our history, children will be worse off than their parents, grandchildren even moreso.

Of course, none of this applies to the elites. The global and historical norm is for a tiny, super-wealthy oligarchy to rule over a massive underclass -- America was the greatest exception in history. Now, America will simply revert to the economic and social conditions that have been normal all over the world, for thousands of years of human history.

IMO.


51 posted on 12/31/2006 7:12:57 AM PST by Mr J (All IMHO.)
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To: A. Pole
Our company manufactures widgets in China. The subcontractor in China gets a buck or two per widget to build it. We get a few hundred bucks per widget to design it, stock it, promote it, sell it, and support it.

I think we got the good end of that deal. This alarmist piece from the NYTimes is BS.

81 posted on 12/31/2006 7:41:48 AM PST by narby
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To: A. Pole

Ah, bemoaning the loss of the subway car industry. And the worldwide demand for them is what? Invest scarce capital in an industry that can measure production by hand if they remove their shoes? I wonder what the author would have written when the buggy whip factory left town?


83 posted on 12/31/2006 7:42:19 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Saddam is Dead! Bush's Fault. [Pray for our patriot brother, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub.])
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To: All

Same crap I heard when Reagan was President.......


87 posted on 12/31/2006 7:47:05 AM PST by KevinDavis (Nancy you ignorant Slut!!!!!)
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To: A. Pole

I work in R&D for a multinational manufacturer. Our R&D site was inside our most productive plant in the U.S. and we had a great relationship with engineering and production. When they closed the plant and shipped manufacturing to Mexico, quality took a big hit, but we made more money with a 50% yield there than a 98% yield here. The problem came when R&D needed to give engineering support for operations in Mexico. It took me almost 2 years to get something done that would have been a 3 week project because of the pure incompetence of the Mexican facility to follow simple instructions. They do things in a way that's easy for each individual department without regard to the downstream effect on the rest of the operation. For R&D development, they basically did what they wanted and ignored the entire protocol. That meant doing things over and over and over. The article is spot on. No manufacturing here, then R&D gets disconnected from reality.


112 posted on 12/31/2006 8:18:14 AM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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