'Restoration' after the fall (Reverend Ted Haggard Imbroglio)

LA Times ^ | 8 December 2006 | Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer

[shrinkermd]

COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. — The Rev. Ted Haggard this week formally begins his long journey toward recovery from a drugs-and-gay-sex scandal that forced him to step down as one of the most influential evangelical leaders in the nation.

Haggard, 50, has turned himself over to a team of counselors who are "assessing his spiritual, emotional and mental condition," said the Rev. H.B. London, who is helping to guide Haggard through the process. London and two other pastors will then set out a rigorous "restoration plan" requiring Haggard to spend hours each week in counseling, Bible study, prayer and soul-baring talks — by phone or in person — with his mentors.

The team's first task will be to push Haggard to acknowledge any addictions and come to an honest understanding of his sexuality. "Ted is not in touch with reality," said the Rev. Mark Cowart, a friend. The mentors can confront Haggard or rebuke him forcefully; they may also ask him to submit to a polygraph test.

"Ted says he's not a homosexual," said the Rev. Mike Ware, a good friend. "The restoration team wants experts to evaluate that."

Haggard's high-profile ministry collapsed last month after a male prostitute went on talk radio to allege that the pastor regularly paid him for sex over the last three years. Mike Jones — who advertised in gay publications as a masseur — also said he had seen Haggard take methamphetamine.

Haggard denied the accusations. But when Jones produced two voice-mail messages from Haggard, the pastor said he had hired the prostitute for a massage and had purchased meth, only to throw it away. In a letter to his congregation, Haggard admitted that he had succumbed to "desires that were contrary to everything I believe and teach."

[shrinkermd]

”…"Ted says he's not a homosexual," said the Rev. Mike Ware, a good friend. "The restoration team wants experts to evaluate that."

I hesitate to say anything, but I am going to anyway.

The biggest problem the “helpers” in this instance will have is their ignorance of the problem. Like most people they may forgive but they do not understand. This man from his perspective quite probably does not believe he is a homosexual.

This comes from something more than denial. He does not understand what he does as well.

The issue is that male “homosexuality” is not a unified, single concept. Among the ways to look at it is to determine whether a person is an “object” homosexual or a “subject homosexual.

Object homosexuals have a strong male identification but have as a preferred love object other males. Quite often they are labeled as “bisexuals” since they are quite capable and often do have sexual experiences with women, marry and have children. They sodomize but ordinarily are not sodomized. Think Gore Vidal. In fact, if you are going to counsel such a person you must read what Gore Vidal says about himself and his plight. In any case, many very masculine men are “homosexuals” and they can be found in the clergy, sports and the military as well as very definite masculine occupations. Object homosexuality is also common in Black men and especially when they are in prison. Invariably the Black object homosexual will deny the deviancy just like Reverend Haggard does.

Subject homosexualshave a strong feminine identification. These are the people ordinarily seen by others as “homosexuals” and this includes most object homosexuals. These individuals are frequently denigrated, shunned and ridiculed. Think____________. I won’t give a name since I don’t want to give anyone a sh*t label they have to live with above and beyond the inner turmoil and suffering they undergo (whether they admit it or not). Reverend Haggard is unlikely to be a “subject homosexual.”

Now both subject and object homosexuals fall on a continuum and there are many other types and aspects of homosexuality that need understanding before one counsels such individuals. Not the least of which is the frequent occurrence of compulsivity, the blending continuum for not only subject vs. object but also for homosexuality and heterosexuality per se and so on and so on.

To summarize, Reverend Haggard from his perspective will not see himself as homosexual for the reasons given. This is one problem.

We have the knowledge of good and evil. We choose and can choose but we often fail to see our underlying identification and commitment that really determines our goals and behaviors. IMHO when all is said and done, Reverend Haggard’s problem will center more on success addiction than sexual addiction. Exploring and understanding this usually permits profound change in many aspects of life—including sexuality. If I were the pastors in this case I would call in Chuck Colson. He is a good example of someone who confronted some how and in some way “bourgeois success addiction” and grew both personally and spiritually.

[wouldntbprudent]

Good post. Thanks.

[xowboy]

Reverend Haggard (and other in recovery)---GO AWAY

Another hero in the making. I for one am sick of the dysfunctional/diseased/disordered whathaveyou being raised on pedestals. Hundreds of millions the world over conduct their lives without all this upset and no one regards them with any special dignity!!!!

[liberty or death]

http://www.biblebelievers.com/Morton_legalism-liberty.html

Something I recently read that pertains to church leader both large and small.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Who cares what he "is". He's a human, a fallen, sinful, human, just like every ONE of us. He has unnatural desires, and he succumbed to them, just as ALL of us do.

He needs to learn how to overcome the lusts, the temptations, the desire to sin that he has. It has little to do with "acknowledging" some label -- he's a sinner, and that's all he needs to acknowledge.

You can "overcome" sin, by the power of the Holy Spirit working in your life. You will still sin, but it will not have dominion over you.

His "plight" is no different than the plight of any heterosexual man who desires to have sex with any half-decent looking woman they meet. You can have the desire, but you don't have to fulfill that desire. Just say no to sin.

And when you fall, when you say YES to sin instead of know, it makes no difference WHAT that sin was, whether it was sleeping with a guy, or sleeping with a girl, or stealing money, or cutting off the driver in the next car, or driving drunk, or taking drugs, or sleeping through church, or using God's name as a curse, or any other sin you can think of.

It's all sin, and it all requires repentance, reflection, and the work of the spirit to heal and prevent.

I happen to think that homosexual sex acts are not more prevalent mostly because of simple peer pressure -- that for most men, the sexual gratification of an act really is not limited to the attractiveness of the one performing the act.

Put a bag on a man's head and they won't know WHO is giving them oral sex, and they will enjoy it. How many clearly heterosexual men have had satisfying relationships with a woman only to THEN find that the woman was really a cross-dressing man, or had a sex-change operation? Most men are taught to hate the idea of another man touching them, but if you took that away, a lot of heterosexual men would give in to the lust of the flesh with other men, and I think we are beginning to see that. The sex in prison is simply the most obvious example of it.

But its the SAME as the cultural breakdown that allows men to have sex with a lot more women, to cheat on their wives, etc. That used to also be something that most men didn't do openly because of peer pressure, but now a lot of that pressure is gone and we have more people NOT married than married as a result.

The problem isn't "homosexuality", it's a complete moral breakdown and a lack of self-control and the abandonment of the CONCEPT of "things you just shouldn't do".

[newzjunkey]

Not familiar with the object/subject concept but I will say that Haggard has five children with his wife which suggests he's not adverse to the procreative act with a women.

There's something very disturbing about this "restoration" process. I hope Haggard come to peace with himself. Whatever the outcome, he's done as a leader in his church.

[Emmett McCarthy]

Sounds pretty much like the muslim distinction between "pitching" and "catching". Under their law, pitching is OK, but catching is evil.

All these mega-church super Christian types leave me cold. I am a believer in salvation through Jesus Christ, but all they ever seem to preach is prosperity through Jesus Christ.

[Miss Marple]

That was a very helpful discussion in your post. Those of us who don't have much knowledge of this subject are often confused and without resources to help understand.

Do you have any references for lay people which might help further understanding?

[tx_eggman]

Reverend Haggard (and other in recovery)---GO AWAY

Another hero in the making. I for one am sick of the dysfunctional/diseased/disordered whathaveyou being raised on pedestals. Hundreds of millions the world over conduct their lives without all this upset and no one regards them with any special dignity!!!!

Dear Dr. Compassion,

Did you even read the article? The reason he's in the paper is that he was the president of the National Assosication of Evangelicals and the pastor of a mega church. If he were one of hundreds of millions conducting his life in anonymity, like the rest of us do, this story would have simply been a blip on the radar screens of his immediate circle of family and friends.

The article states:

Since his public confession, Haggard has secluded himself with his wife, Gayle, and their five children.

He's not being put on a pedestal, he got knocked off one ... loosing his church and his reputation. Now, perhaps, he can deal with his formerly hidden emotional and spiritual brokenness.

In a very real sense his exposure was the mercy of God to him.

[tessalu]

Show Ted Haggard a way back to the money.

[org.whodat]

Reverend Haggard (and other in recovery)---GO AWAY

Butt, butt, what can I do to get my hand back in the collection plate. Got to air condition the dog house.

They are all the same. Brother loves traveling salvation show!

[XR7]

bump.

[shrinkermd]

No, I don't have a best or perfect text or reference. Sometimes it is best to immerse yourself in a subject and print out or take notes on a variety of sources. Of course, Google is ideal for that.

What is important is to listen and see before you decide anything. Just the reverse of what many do on this subect which is to "sentence first and try later" as in Alice in Wonderland land.

[xowboy]

Dear Spiritual Guider on High,

You may wish to delude yourself with all of your compassion, but frankly the good pastor should go "...deal with his formerly hidden emotional and spiritual brokenness" without me. Jim Baker Tammy Faye Jimmmy Swaggart----found their way back to collection plate in good order. I don't worrry about this clown either.

[don-o]

Reverend Haggard (and other in recovery)---GO AWAY

The "anonymous" is in A.A. for a very good reason. It is unfortunate that we, the media consuming public have a voracious appetite for this type of spectacle.

[xowboy]

Lot's of these folks don't want the "anonymous" part of the process---that would stop their 15 minutes of fame(and fortune).

[USS Alaska]

If you are a male and take another male's member into any of your body cavities, or vice versa, you are queer. Object or subject, who cares? This guy is a queer that was in the closet, got caught and is now looking for ways to cover his sorry ass.

[don-o]

Nice broad brush, that. Any of the "celebrities" that do go for recovery have two strikes against them going in. Ego deflation is a big part of the process and is a lifelong work.

Recovery for us "nobodies" is tough enough. I cannot imagine how the "gods" of our culture could deal with it.

[xowboy]

part of the deflation is in being annomyous; agreed a very tough thing to do.

[Preacher777]

I don't know Haggard ... I know of him, but I do not know him. I DO know H. B. London. He is "the real deal"!! He has been in ministry for ~35 years ... he is not "fluff" ... he will cut through all of the lies and will pursue the truth of who Ted is and what his troubles are. He will "hold his feet to the fire" ... he will also care for his eternal soul.

[padre35]

It seems to me that his recovery shouldn't really be the subject of a newspaper article.

His recovery should be a matter of action, not words.

[meandog]

Well, well, a spectacularly good post from you CT...I'm surprized! I do believe that a lot of well-intentioned but misguided FReepers equate the sin of a homosexual act as anathema to be scorned worse than any other sin and--at least what I've been taught through my Christian education--it is no worse (or better) than fornication, adultery or even lust in the heart for the opposite sex (all of which I can admit to the shame of having done). Sin, IMHO, is rather black or white in the eyes of God and we all do it.

[pissant]

Nah, let him go shack up with Mcgreevey and Foley. They can open their own bed and breakfast for poofers.

Better than this basket case trying to have a comeback in the pulpit like Jimmy Swiegart and Robert Tilton.

[alpha-8-25-02]

A FINE READ!

[tx_eggman]

You may wish to delude yourself with all of your compassion, but frankly the good pastor should go "...deal with his formerly hidden emotional and spiritual brokenness" without me.

noob ... I don't recall reading where he asked you along for the ride ... did I miss something somewhere?

[HereInTheHeartland]

" The Rev. Ted Haggard this week formally begins his long journey toward recovery from a drugs-and-gay-sex scandal"

That is all good. But he must never be let close to a pulpit again.
If is truly repentant, he will be in a different career and out of the limelight.

[xowboy]

Nope did't miss a thing. Just commenting on a PUBLIC BLOG to a POSTED ON A PUBLIC FORM

[tx_eggman]

Nope did't miss a thing. Just commenting on a PUBLIC BLOG to a POSTED ON A PUBLIC FORM

Keep up the good work

[xowboy]

Will do

And for my penance Father you may send me to hell!

[newheart]

"Well, well, a spectacularly good post from you CT...I'm surprized! I do believe that a lot of well-intentioned but misguided FReepers equate the sin of a homosexual act as anathema to be scorned worse than any other sin and--at least what I've been taught through my Christian education--it is no worse (or better) than fornication, adultery or even lust in the heart for the opposite sex (all of which I can admit to the shame of having done). Sin, IMHO, is rather black or white in the eyes of God and we all do it."

Very well put, dog. Here is how C.S. Lewis echoes your senitment in Mere Christianity, Chapter 5:

"The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual: the pleasure of putting other people in the worng, of bossing and patronising and spoiling sport, and back-biting; the pleasures of power, of hatred."

If Haggard is truly in a broken and repentant state is much closer to God than those of us who would summarily dismiss him as being guilty of some unforgivable sin.

[tx_eggman]

And for my penance Father you may send me to hell!

I work there ... there's a seat open in the next cubicle.

[AppyPappy]

I think Haggard is just a unSaved pervert. God can fix him if Haggard will allow it. Haggard will have to get out of his own way though.

[xowboy]

Lucky you. (please review the spelling and grammer and send comments.)

[xowboy]

Lucky you. (please review the spelling and grammer and send comments.)

[TexanToTheCore]

I'm still trying to figue out who this guy is...never heard of him.

[wideminded]

Thanks for the interesting analysis from someone who seems to know what they are talking about.

There's a lot of talk on FR by people who claim that homosexuality is merely a behavior. According to this theory, homosexuals are people who give in to temptation and if they could only learn to resist this temptation they would be "cured" of being gay.

Another theory holds that a purely heterosexual individual does not feel the temptation toward homosexual acts or find their own sex attractive in a sexual sense. If one does feel this attraction then one is at least partially gay (on a bisexual continuum). "Cured" gays "need to fight temptation" because they still feel these attractions. Therefore in a fundamental sense nothing has changed for them.

What is your opinion of these competing theories?

[AD from SpringBay]

I like what you say. Haggard has disqualified himself from ever pastoring again. He can still serve in a church, but he's (should be) done as a pastor.

[xowboy]

Thanks.

[Wuli]

"Object homosexuals" and "Subject homosexuals"

are (1) cliches, and (2)stereotypes that (3) do not fit the majority of homosexuals; who do not fit into a broader stereotype of needing to play a particularly dominate or particularly submissive role; which, by the way does not fit the majority of heterosexuals either. Most ALL people are neither "dominant" or "submissive" with the one person they are really in love with.

[DarthVader]

So very true and it is a huge problem in the Church today.

[eleni121]

You have it right.

[eleni121]

http://www.biblebelievers.com/Morton_legalism-liberty.html

What a read! Thanks

[esquirette]

To spell check or not to spell check. That is the question.

[xowboy]

Indeed.

[Elsie]

James 5:13-20
13. Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise.
14. Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.
16. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
17. Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
18. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
19. My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
20. remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

[Elsie]

amen!

[Elsie]

I'm glad I'm not like THAT sinner!


Luke 18:11-14
11. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
12. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
13. "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
14. "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

[Elsie]

. But he must never be let close to a pulpit again.

I'm sure you have some Scripture that backs this assertion; right?

[Elsie]

I think Haggard is just a unSaved pervert.

And therefore, by the same token, King David was just an unbelieving adulterer and murderer?

[Elsie]

 

 What is your opinion of these competing theories?

Oh.... kinda like this:

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Genesis 13:13
  Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.
 

Genesis 18:20-21
 20.  Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
 21.  that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
 4.  Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 
 5.  They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
 6.  Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
 7.  and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psa. 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

         More?

Isaiah 3:9
   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
 49.  "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
 50.  They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

 

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But there IS hope!!!

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1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9.  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
 10.  nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 
 11.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....