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Very interesting article. Makes you think that maybe we've been misled.
1 posted on 12/05/2006 1:02:43 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Is "Peak Oil" a fraud?

It seems like it’s all been a big charade.

****

“In his book, The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels, he explains that dinosaurs and plants and the fossils from those living beings are not the origin of oil and natural gas, but rather generated from a chemical substance in the crust of the Earth. “

----

It’s strange that any of us ever believed that (dinosaur/oil) fantasy in the first place. I guess they fed it to us early enough in school when most of us never asked too many questions. How would have the “remains” of those dinosaurs gotten so deeply into the earth where the oil is now?

;-)

2 posted on 12/05/2006 1:16:59 AM PST by beyond the sea ( All lies and jest, still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

yup


3 posted on 12/05/2006 1:19:16 AM PST by miliantnutcase ("If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it." -ichabod1)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
From another source:

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/peak_oil/is_peak_oil_a_myth.htm

Finally, a word of caution on the essential fragility of a study on the very long-term future for the world's energy supply which accepts without question the validity of the original 18th century hypothesis that all oil and gas resources have been generated from biological matter in the chemical and thermodynamic environments of the earth's crust. There is an alternative theory - already 50 years old - which suggests an inorganic origin for additional oil and gas. This alternative view is widely accepted in the countries of the former Soviet Union where, it is claimed, "large volumes of hydrocarbons are being produced from the pre-Cambrian crystalline basement".

Recent applications of the inorganic theory have, however, also led to claims for the possibility of the Middle East fields being able to produce oil "forever" and to the concept of repleting oil and gas fields in the gulf of Mexico. More generally, it is argued, "all giant fields are most logically explained by inorganic theory because simple calculations of potential hydrocarbon contents in sediments shows that organic materials are too few to supply the volumes of petroleum involved."

4 posted on 12/05/2006 1:21:13 AM PST by beyond the sea ( All lies and jest, still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"One word I want you to remember...are you listening?



"TITAN"


5 posted on 12/05/2006 1:29:05 AM PST by Dallas59 (Muslims Are Only Guests In Western Countries)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In 2003, Discover magazine published this article. It says that we can manufacture as much oil as we could ever need out of garbage, sewage, and agricultural waste. It said the cost was $15 per barrel:

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm

In 2006, Discover magazine published this update. It turns out the real cost is $80 per barrel:

http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-06/features/anything-oil/

This proves that oil is indeed a renewable resource, and we can never run out.


7 posted on 12/05/2006 1:40:39 AM PST by grundle
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Cassini finds evidence of giant hydrocarbon lakes on moon Titan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1671604/posts


9 posted on 12/05/2006 1:51:22 AM PST by quietolong
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; justa-hairyape; grundle
By the way, the only part I agree with of the website I noted earlier is the science at the very end of the site. All that conspiracy talk throughout the earlier parts is not my concern.

I only wish to say that true science shows that Peak Oil is NOT true. And we were all rather innocent fools to believe it in the first place.

Peak oil is a decades old lie creating artificial scarcity and thusly higher prices. Big oil does a great job getting oil out of the earth for a relatively decent price, but it's all a big game and they control it.

An "artificial scarcity strategy" has been in place for decades and decades. It looks like "social planners" have nearly succeeded in de-industrializing the United States. They will blame our economic dissipation on shortages of energy supplies. How convenient.

Now that the world economy has become so centralized, there will be blame put on the West's over consumption of fossil fuels, and at the same time development and use of renewable clean technologies seems to continue to be impeded. This is all real good for the oil companies. Meanwhile, “alternative fuel technologies” which have existed for years are suppressed.

Oh well ................ no pun intended.

13 posted on 12/05/2006 2:04:32 AM PST by beyond the sea ( All lies and jest, still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Thanks for the interesting thread. I think that we have been and are being misled - about lots of things, and all to the benefit of the MSM. Either we are equal or we are not. Good people should be armed where they will, with wits, skepticism and guns. Merry Christmas
23 posted on 12/05/2006 3:10:58 AM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Just because hyrdocarbons are renewable, does not mean they will do so in time before we use up the existing supllies. That to me is the real issue.

Two quick points:

1) We are constantly discovering huge amounts of new gas and oil. And that not even going after easily tapped sources in Alaska or the Gulf Coast.

2) Technology will drastically change our energy sources/needs in the next 50 years.


24 posted on 12/05/2006 3:11:23 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
…then is "Peak Oil" a fraud?

The answer would depend on the rate new oil is being formed. If it is forming as fast as we use it, no problem.

33 posted on 12/05/2006 3:47:13 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Peak oil fits in neatly with the eco-terrorist lobby that claims we are running out of oil and need to give up our cars. They would hate for the US to exploit new oil fields on American soil that would allow us to be energy independent.


38 posted on 12/05/2006 4:06:02 AM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Unbeknownst to Westerners..."

Speak for yourself.

39 posted on 12/05/2006 4:07:33 AM PST by semaj
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Unbeknownst to Westerners, there have actually been for quite some time now two competing theories concerning the origins of petroleum. One theory claims that oil is an organic 'fossil fuel' deposited in finite quantities near the planet's surface. The other theory claims that oil is continuously generated by natural processes in the Earth's magma.

Sheesh. If this guy had really read Gold's book, he wouldn't have made so many errors in such a short space. Oil, regardless of its origin, is still organic because it's a carbon containing compound. The other theory doesn't claim a continuous generation of petroleum (as though it's infinite in quantity compared to the previously posited "finite quantities" of "fossil fuel"). It claims a finite amount of premordial methane in the earth is continuously percolating to the surface and being transformed by pressure and temperature differentials along the way into longer chained hydrocarbons. Some of it also makes it all the way to the surface as methane (the source of methane hydrates). It doesn't claim that the methane is coming from magma.

Too bad Thomas Gold's website was taken down after his death. There was a lot of interesting stuff there. I think I saved it all before then. Let me see what I can find.
42 posted on 12/05/2006 4:36:28 AM PST by aruanan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
about time this started getting some exposure.

Believe it or not, it never occurred to me *duh!* until I heard Rush Limbaugh mention in passing that "scientists argue that oil is still being made..."

The light went on. Of course it is. Why not? And who knows but that it's being made more and faster by some mechanism of critical mass way down in the bowels of the earth.

46 posted on 12/05/2006 4:58:17 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (* nuke * the * jihad *)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Economies, dynasties, empires once rose and fell on their access to...salt. Now we throw it over our shoulder as a gag.

Someday, perhaps oil...

47 posted on 12/05/2006 5:00:54 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (* nuke * the * jihad *)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If hydrocarbons are renewable- then is "Peak Oil" a fraud?

Not at all. The peak of oil prices is probably right around here on the timeline somewhere.

48 posted on 12/05/2006 5:02:06 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (* nuke * the * jihad *)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Makes you think that maybe we've been misled.

Don't bank on it. All the super giant oil fields Ghawar, Cantrell etc were found in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We now produce two barrels of oil for every barrel of new oil discovered. Although the typical western oil field yields more than original estimates, fields in the middle east typically fall short of the estimated reserves.

World oil consumption is now 30 Billion bbls/yr and is projected to grow by 50% by 2025 if present trends continue.

We are not about to run out of oil completely but the peak of production is almost certainly here either now or in the next 4-5 years. Major oil producers and exporters like Indonesia now produce less than they consume and now have to import oil. Aggregate non-OPEC oil production is now in decline.

Modern production techniques have improved the recovery factor from resevoirs but those techniques mean that when resevoirs decline they do so at a faster rate than before secondary and tertiary techniques were employed.

Saudi Arabia which everyone has hoped would fill in the demand gap, has been employing the most sophisticated techniques on its super giant fields for nearly two decades now. It uses enormous quantaties of sea water to inject into it's fields to keep up resevoir pressure. Declines in annual production in Cantrell the super giant Mexican field are now estimated at between 10-14%/anum. Mexico is not replacing its reserves as fast as it is producing. The largest oil field in China, Daquing, is in decline as are the two largest fields in FSU.

The world is not about to run out of oil but the era of cheap oil is over. New discoveries will be more and more difficult to exploit and will require larger and larger pools of capital. The oil industry is displaying all the signs of an industry in decline. Consolidations and mergers are the order of the day ( BP+Amoco+ARCO, EXXON+ Mobil, etc). There will be price fluctuations from temporary oil supply gluts but the long term trend will be rising prices in real terms. Whereas Saudi Arabia had a large margin of unused production capacity in the eighties and nineties they are now maxed out and have been unable to boost production capacity to the levels they were projecting five years ago. Some oil industry analysts project they will not be able to increase their production capacity much beyond 1-2 million bbls/day under the best case scenario.

Production of "non-conventional sources" ( Canadian tar sands etc) of oil require vast amounts of water to produce so exogenous factors may constrain amounts that can be produced.

The problem for us in The US is that our infrastructure is geared toward oil as the primary energy source for transportation. We need to move rapidly to reduce our dependence on oil and replace it, primarily by nuclear and renewables.

Houston we have a problem and it's not going to be cured by wishful thinking.

85 posted on 12/05/2006 6:21:51 AM PST by Timocrat (I Emanate on your Auras and Penumbras Mr Blackmun)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yes, because the technology to convert coal to gasoline and diesel has been around since the the 1930's. Thus if "peak oil prices" ever become to much the market says that coal converted gasoline will become a competing source thus regular oil produced gas drops in price. It's all a matter of economics. There's enough coal for a thousand years.


87 posted on 12/05/2006 6:30:16 AM PST by techcor
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Perhaps the hydrocarbon is limited is the same BS as Diamonds are rare.

However that said, then wells which were pumped dry should not have refilled. Is there any example of a well which was left for dry and is now back in full production?


91 posted on 12/05/2006 6:59:49 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yes, it's true, the Lomonosov Theory of oil formation is old and outdated rubbish, and belongs on the ash heap with other disproven models like the geocentric theory of the universe.

The proponents of this were telling us over a year ago that all the major oil fields on earth had been discovered and that there would be no more big finds. And then three months ago they discovered a huge find nine kilometers deep within the Gulf of Mexico which may turn out to be even bigger than Prudhoe Bay.

96 posted on 12/05/2006 8:09:39 AM PST by jpl (Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win.)
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