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Evolution wins out in Michigan science curriculum debate
mlive.com (Michigan News) ^ | 10 October 2006 | TIM MARTIN

Posted on 10/10/2006 10:00:04 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: andysandmikesmom
Since when does anyone in this country need a armed guard to protect them while they go to church

It's all part of the happy hallucination that certain Christians entertain. See, they're persecuted. We know this because they say they are. They view themselves as horribly abused and victimized because there are folks out there who just won't believe what these particular Christians tell them to believe.

Reality simply can't intrude on this delusion.

561 posted on 10/13/2006 6:59:59 AM PDT by atlaw
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Comment #562 Removed by Moderator

To: atlaw

I just saw it as part of 'drama queen' syndrome...

I heard someone complaining last Christmas, about how they wished the cashier in the story a 'Merry Christmas', and someone gave them a dirty look, and Horrors, they were being persecuted because they were a Christian...does this may any sense at all?..give me a break...someone gave you a dirty look?...and this is persecution?...

Coming this Sunday morning, I will have to look and see if the armed guards are out, escorting folks in and out of church...actually I will begin watching Saturday evening...the fella across the street from me, holds regular Bible studies and a church fellowship on Saturday nites in his home...I will keep watch at my window to see the armed guards arrive to escort the worshippers inside...Actually when I see him this afternoon, I should ask him about those armed guards...I am sure he will wonder what in the heck I am talking about..

~Sigh~...its just surreal...


563 posted on 10/13/2006 11:29:28 AM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: andysandmikesmom

borrowed ==>Placemarker<==


564 posted on 10/13/2006 9:27:33 PM PDT by b_sharp (since evolution is not, generally speaking, a global optimiser, but a general satisficer -J. Wilkins)
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To: b_sharp
"change in allele frequency within a population"


The science of changing the frequency of preexisting information within a population of a specific kind of animal has been around for thousands of years also called selective breeding, whether or not natural selection was the breeder or not. Belief in abiogenesis and belief that random mutations (Natural selection does not produce anything new) can produce enough new beneficial information to produce life as we observe it in any amount of time is a belief in the extremely improbable.


"you also create a inextricably entangle the origin of life with the modern concept of biological evolution"

The origin of the first life is relevant to the discussion of the origin of life no matter how one defines "evolution". The question at hand was was one of probable existence of an Intelligent Designer, or purely chance and natural process.


stating the proposition again...

...because they are. The views of 1) the origin life originated from purely chance and natural process, and 2) the origin of life did not originate from chance and natural process...the origin of life originated from something outside of nature (Intelligent Designer..'God'.. some 'generic' entity outside of nature) are mutually exclusive. Both propositions (logically) cannot be true at the same time.


"All three of those questions contains a concept of God held by some Christians. They believe both in God and in Evolution."


The question/dichotomy is not intended to address the question of theistic evolution...that God somehow directed evolution, the question is directed merely at the existence of an Intelligent Designer which is outlawed and censored in Michigan schools.

"Intelligent design instruction could be left for other classes in Michigan schools. But it shouldn't have a home in science class, based on the unanimously adopted guidelines."

There are other arguments I that I believe that theistic evolution is not probable, logically and scientifically consistent, and theologically consistent. etc...the preponderance of circumstantial evidence does not support it.



"Now for my question. Or rather my series of related questions....if God started the universe through the BB and then sat back and watched, how does that affect the study of Evolution?...if God started the life through an initial self replicator 3.8 billion years ago and then sat back and watched, how does that affect the study of Evolution?... if God not only started the first life but initiated the 'Cambrian Explosion' then sat back and watched, how does that affect the study of Evolution?"


To borrow the words of Francis Bacon, a founder of modern science...I believe that both the book of God's word and the book of God's world where written by the same author. When a student discover the mathematical unity order and natural process of God's creation, complexity of life etc, the glory of God, his eternal power and divine nature, are reflected. This is a profoundly different motivation for seeking to find natural processes as a vain effort to purposefully exclude an Intelligent Designer, compared to seeking to understand God's creation to view a reflection of the glory of God. The exclusion of God philosophy of education is evident in state/tax-payer funded schools which violate the establishment clause by establishing an atheistic religion and prohibit exercise of religions which include an Intelligent Designer.

I don't know of any mainstream evolutionist who proposes that conditions where such that life could have existed on earth for 3.8 billion years.


"if God not only started the first life but initiated the 'Cambrian Explosion' then sat back and watched, how does that affect the study of Evolution?"

This statement is outlawed in Michigan schools. God starting the first life is an acknowledgment of the existence of supernatural act outside of nature...a miracle... I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'initiated', but I think there is an acknowledgment of a supernatural act outside of nature...a miracle... there as well.
565 posted on 10/16/2006 10:17:16 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: Diamond
What religion is ID?

Theism.
566 posted on 10/25/2006 9:43:39 AM PDT by Borges
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